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	<title>Comments on: Dutch Psychiatrists euthanizing patients</title>
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	<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/09/26/dutch-psychiatrists-euthanizing-patients/</link>
	<description>I am not out of my mind, most excellent Festus, but I utter words of sober truth.</description>
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		<title>By: Goy</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/09/26/dutch-psychiatrists-euthanizing-patients/comment-page-1/#comment-90937</link>
		<dc:creator>Goy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 16:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[@fr. Richard,

In both your comments the observation is your&#039;s not mine - &lt;i&gt;that conservative Christians seem rather thin on the ground and that there is a surfeit of gay men and women in palliative care.&lt;/i&gt;

I merely took your word for the disparity and my general experiences of interfacing with the public services and third sector to offer a superficial opinion of why that might be - &lt;i&gt;a left of centre closed shop of conscience in large parts of the public services and third sector.&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@fr. Richard,</p>
<p>In both your comments the observation is your&#8217;s not mine &#8211; <i>that conservative Christians seem rather thin on the ground and that there is a surfeit of gay men and women in palliative care.</i></p>
<p>I merely took your word for the disparity and my general experiences of interfacing with the public services and third sector to offer a superficial opinion of why that might be &#8211; <i>a left of centre closed shop of conscience in large parts of the public services and third sector.</i></p>
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		<title>By: fr. Richard</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/09/26/dutch-psychiatrists-euthanizing-patients/comment-page-1/#comment-90911</link>
		<dc:creator>fr. Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 12:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/?p=26796#comment-90911</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Goy

It would be interesting to hear of your experience of working in the public or third sector!

I had thought, after I wrote the above comment, that perhaps I was being a little too &#039;London-Centric&#039; and that outside of London the make up of teams may be a little different.  However on reflection I realised that because there is a disproportionate number of immigrant nurses working in London - many of whom also have a conservative religious faith - that it is odd that you don&#039;t see more in palliative care - particularly as it is better paid than ward nurisng.  

Whatever: &#039;conservative Christians seem rather thin on the ground… Odd that those who talk the talk so seldom walk the walk…&#039;

Is probably a little too simplistic and I withdraw it.  Tho&#039; the comment &#039;a left of centre closed shop of conscience in large parts of the public services and third sector&#039;  is probably rooted in a similar ignorance and perhaps explains why there is so little real communication in the world when we all parrot our prejudices from our own little ivory towers.

Regards:

P.D.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Goy</p>
<p>It would be interesting to hear of your experience of working in the public or third sector!</p>
<p>I had thought, after I wrote the above comment, that perhaps I was being a little too &#8216;London-Centric&#8217; and that outside of London the make up of teams may be a little different.  However on reflection I realised that because there is a disproportionate number of immigrant nurses working in London &#8211; many of whom also have a conservative religious faith &#8211; that it is odd that you don&#8217;t see more in palliative care &#8211; particularly as it is better paid than ward nurisng.  </p>
<p>Whatever: &#8216;conservative Christians seem rather thin on the ground… Odd that those who talk the talk so seldom walk the walk…&#8217;</p>
<p>Is probably a little too simplistic and I withdraw it.  Tho&#8217; the comment &#8216;a left of centre closed shop of conscience in large parts of the public services and third sector&#8217;  is probably rooted in a similar ignorance and perhaps explains why there is so little real communication in the world when we all parrot our prejudices from our own little ivory towers.</p>
<p>Regards:</p>
<p>P.D.</p>
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		<title>By: Goy</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/09/26/dutch-psychiatrists-euthanizing-patients/comment-page-1/#comment-90569</link>
		<dc:creator>Goy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/?p=26796#comment-90569</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@fr. Richard, 

&lt;i&gt;&quot;... conservative Christians seem rather thin on the ground… Odd that those who talk the talk so seldom walk the walk…&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

No disrespect intended but how much of that maybe due to a left of centre closed shop of conscience in large parts of the public services and third sector? 

Obviously there are exceptions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@fr. Richard, </p>
<p><i>&#8220;&#8230; conservative Christians seem rather thin on the ground… Odd that those who talk the talk so seldom walk the walk…&#8221;</i></p>
<p>No disrespect intended but how much of that maybe due to a left of centre closed shop of conscience in large parts of the public services and third sector? </p>
<p>Obviously there are exceptions.</p>
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		<title>By: fr. Richard</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/09/26/dutch-psychiatrists-euthanizing-patients/comment-page-1/#comment-90562</link>
		<dc:creator>fr. Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 16:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/?p=26796#comment-90562</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Today, as I worked with a woman with end stage motor neurone disease – a woman of deep Catholic faith – she sobbed her heart out because of the pain, the immobility (she is completely paralysed and can only move her eyes and a few fingers on one hand – she is PEG fed) and the frustration of the disease.  She said to me that all she wanted to do was die.  I replied that death does not come for the asking and we talked about pain control and respite care at the local hospice and how we could improve communication.

‘Death does not come for the asking’ that is the rule in palliative care in Britain and I have worked in end of life care since 2003 and I have yet to hear any different – the message is the same from nurses, doctors, social workers and allied health professionals throughout the profession.  It is those who sit on the side lines, clucking and moaning but doing little in any shape or form to care for the sick, the dying, those with illness and conditions that revolt the senses.  Odd too, that here in London, there seems to be a surfeit of gay men and women who work in palliative care – conservative Christians seem rather thin on the ground…  Odd that those who talk the talk so seldom walk the walk…]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today, as I worked with a woman with end stage motor neurone disease – a woman of deep Catholic faith – she sobbed her heart out because of the pain, the immobility (she is completely paralysed and can only move her eyes and a few fingers on one hand – she is PEG fed) and the frustration of the disease.  She said to me that all she wanted to do was die.  I replied that death does not come for the asking and we talked about pain control and respite care at the local hospice and how we could improve communication.</p>
<p>‘Death does not come for the asking’ that is the rule in palliative care in Britain and I have worked in end of life care since 2003 and I have yet to hear any different – the message is the same from nurses, doctors, social workers and allied health professionals throughout the profession.  It is those who sit on the side lines, clucking and moaning but doing little in any shape or form to care for the sick, the dying, those with illness and conditions that revolt the senses.  Odd too, that here in London, there seems to be a surfeit of gay men and women who work in palliative care – conservative Christians seem rather thin on the ground…  Odd that those who talk the talk so seldom walk the walk…</p>
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		<title>By: Simian</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/09/26/dutch-psychiatrists-euthanizing-patients/comment-page-1/#comment-89860</link>
		<dc:creator>Simian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 00:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/?p=26796#comment-89860</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To my mind this does not provide a valid argument against assisted suicide, but I think what it does provide is an opportunity to learn, and to ensure that in the UK we draft laws tightly enough to prevent abuse.  I think the key phrases &#039;terminally ill&#039; and &#039;suffering unbearably&#039; are just as important as &#039;mentally competent&#039;.  So someone who is suffering from extreme mental ill health but does not fulfil the other two criteria is not in the same category.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To my mind this does not provide a valid argument against assisted suicide, but I think what it does provide is an opportunity to learn, and to ensure that in the UK we draft laws tightly enough to prevent abuse.  I think the key phrases &#8216;terminally ill&#8217; and &#8216;suffering unbearably&#8217; are just as important as &#8216;mentally competent&#8217;.  So someone who is suffering from extreme mental ill health but does not fulfil the other two criteria is not in the same category.</p>
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		<title>By: Goy</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/09/26/dutch-psychiatrists-euthanizing-patients/comment-page-1/#comment-89731</link>
		<dc:creator>Goy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/?p=26796#comment-89731</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;U.K. Ministers are &#039;thinking the unthinkable&#039; euthanasia as the human contribution to the £10 billion of welfare cuts.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;b&gt;To stop the unthinkable sometimes you have to think the unthinkable.&lt;/b&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>U.K. Ministers are &#8216;thinking the unthinkable&#8217; euthanasia as the human contribution to the £10 billion of welfare cuts.</i></p>
<p><b>To stop the unthinkable sometimes you have to think the unthinkable.</b></p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/09/26/dutch-psychiatrists-euthanizing-patients/comment-page-1/#comment-89728</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/?p=26796#comment-89728</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t understand why anybody is surprised by this.  It seems perfectly obvious to me that this was going to happen.

Once doctors are turned from life-savers to life-takers the barn door is open.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand why anybody is surprised by this.  It seems perfectly obvious to me that this was going to happen.</p>
<p>Once doctors are turned from life-savers to life-takers the barn door is open.</p>
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