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	<title>Comments on: Gay conversion therapy, exorcism, Christianity and BBC bias</title>
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	<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/09/23/gay-conversion-therapy-exorcism-christianity-bbc-bias/</link>
	<description>I am not out of my mind, most excellent Festus, but I utter words of sober truth.</description>
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		<title>By: Ben Trovato</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/09/23/gay-conversion-therapy-exorcism-christianity-bbc-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-89371</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Trovato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2012 09:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Good post, Stuart.  Who would have thought it indeed? Q

I am quite shocked, as  I know the BBC to be entirely without bias or prejudice - for they tell us so themselves with great regularity and an air of surprised and injured innocence, astonished that anyone could even imagine such a thing...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, Stuart.  Who would have thought it indeed? Q</p>
<p>I am quite shocked, as  I know the BBC to be entirely without bias or prejudice &#8211; for they tell us so themselves with great regularity and an air of surprised and injured innocence, astonished that anyone could even imagine such a thing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Fr Richard</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/09/23/gay-conversion-therapy-exorcism-christianity-bbc-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-89370</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2012 09:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/?p=26753#comment-89370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I recently got into a tussle with a few of commenters on ++Cranmer’s blog – in short over something similar: in this case, the presumption that because one gay person thinks or feels about something in one way, it does not mean that all gay people think and feel about something in the same way.  Yet this syllogistic logic appears in another guise when it comes to Christians.  Apparently, when someone makes a criticism or notes the failings of a person’s personal experience of a few Christians, this is then seen as maligning all Christians?

I have read the article and I cannot see any evidence of a bias aimed at showing ‘Christians’ per se in a bad light.  It has to be remembered there are people out there who seem fixated on the subject of homosexuality (and here I don’t mean Revd Peter Ould or Dr Peter Saunders – both of whom fight a difficult battle from a conservative foundation) who do need to be called to account.  The trouble is with a journalistic article – or even a journal article (I’ve produced and had published both forms or writing) is that whatever the initial article may have looked like, it will be edited down for space and given an editorial spin.  In this case, I don’t think it is painting Christians in a bad light – I do think more could have been said about positive healing or support (tho’ I’ve not come across much in my experience!) but the article is subjective, concerning the experience of one man, so it will, by necessity, keep returning to his view.

The following is from a letter I wrote to someone who claimed organisations like True Freedom Trust could provide help and support for homosexuals.  As I had had contact with the organisation in the late 80s, I thought I’d share my experiences:

“There are those who choose to participate in homosexual acts, either for kicks or because of circumstances (e.g. prisoners), but those who know themselves to be homosexual are usually aware of the fact before they reach puberty – I certainly did.  I have spent the intervening years (more than thirty) looking for healing and praying that one day I will wake up a heterosexual or at least not troubled by the fact my emotional and sexual needs cannot be met by an Evangelical or conservative understanding of the Bible.  I have had counselling, I’ve been anointed, I’ve been prayed for, over and about and I’ve had more hands laid on me than a Magistrate’s Bible.  I have sought out people and organisations around the country I think will be able to help and more than anything else I have prayed and prayed and wept and hated myself because of my ‘failings’.  I have dabbled with Wimber and immersed myself in sacraments.  I have spent years being celibate.  I have been so overcome with self-hatred that on more than one occasion have come close to killing myself.  I have struggled on for years being a celibate homosexual in churches that mark you out as different, as someone who needs to be kept an eye on.  I have had several long-term relationships with women: thankfully each has ended in an enduring friendship despite them being relationships doomed to failure as life-long partnerships...

[There are attempts at] healing and support in a Church setting that may give a homosexual person the hope of ‘wholeness’.  Tho’ I have to confess my distrust of the heresy evident in much popular Christian ‘healing’ and its understanding of ‘wholeness’.   Esp. when you see the rows of Christian ‘penny-dreadfuls’ on the subject, in any Christian bookshop.  Many healing paradigms combine popular psychology with its understanding of the self that is rooted in a Humanist/non-Christian/Enlightenment view of personality and throw in bits and pieces from Scripture to prove it is ‘Christian’ – often quoted out of context. This was certainly true (in my eyes, at least) of True Freedoms Trust’s approach to healing when I had contact with the organisation in the late 80s; their website doesn’t indicate to me I should revise my opinion.  There is an uncomfortable and ironic marriage of counselling paradigms - with their associated concepts of wholeness and fulfilment - and Evangelical paradigms of human sexuality.  The two are mutually exclusive and the latter can only draw from certain aspects of the former and yet the former is used to provide an emotional and psychological defence against the privations of the latter.  In addition ‘healing’ itself can be very ‘me’ centred.  This is certainly evident in Hallett’s book ‘I’m Learning to Love’, which at times appears to be a love affair with his own past (which is not uncommon with ‘conversion narrative’ autobiographies – many display a curious pride in the ‘sins of the past’ that rather belie the depth of the supposed conversion); but also skates on pretty thin ice theologically with regard to notions of the self and the role of the Holy Spirit in individual healing (tho’ I must confess it is 26 years since I read the book – but my enduring memory is that it should be read with caution, as it is, like many of the books that grace Christian bookshelves, lacking in orthodox theology but heavy on the cult of the individual).  My experiences of ‘Wimber’ prayer and counselling, provided by a loving, but on hindsight, misguided woman in the house-group I attending for four years in Leeds, has given me a great mistrust of Charismatic ‘Christian Healing’.  Some of the ideas, concepts of sin and evil, and techniques used were more akin to magic and occult or Manichaean dualism than Christianity and I would strongly caution any homosexual (or anyone, for that matter!) looking for Christian counselling and healing to stay away from such methods, they are often employed by people seeking power over others rather than people looking for healing from God!!  Latterly, within a contemplative, monastic setting, I have also witnessed a tendency to promote the cult of the self – monastic life, despite its outward trappings, can be very ‘me’ centred.  Healing can become akin to idolatry: we covet, often worship, a notion of wholeness and fulfilment that is not always God’s purpose for us.  I have been guilty of this, striving to be a healthy and happy heterosexual.  Yet, I now realise my identity is found in Christ....  But I would argue that this is seldom something we can achieve for own gratification or to fulfil the obsession many of us have for making ‘me’ feel better about ‘myself’.  A Christian friend of mine once told me how he had started picking up small change on the street, as he thought it was an act of humility.  I thought about this and realised that in telling me this, he was in fact taking pride in his humility.  Of course this is not possible and is indeed a kind of oxymoron.  Humility cannot be experienced by the self as something gratifying, in fact being humble negates the sensual side of our nature.  Humility is a sweet gift of grace, but it is not something we ourselves can be aware of.  The clearest example of this is Jesus’ words of abandonment on the Cross: there was no self-interest; there was none of the ‘aren’t I a good person able to suffer for God’.  He felt total abandonment as the humility wrought out of total obedience to the Will of the Father left him without consolation and without hope – only Love remained, a love which over came death.  Our lives too are sometimes hidden in God and the things that we are apt to think will make us holy are sometimes far from God’s purpose.  ”

The above was written nine or so years ago, but there is little that has changed in my thinking on the subject since – save the fact I am now one half of a same-sex relationship.  This, oddly enough, has moved me on from self-obsession and brought me a good deal of the personal and emotional happiness that was lacking in the first 40 years of my life.

So I have perhaps more than a dash of sympathy with anyone who speaks out against much that passes for ‘healing ministries’ within the Christian fold.  I would be more convinced of their veracity if in addition to the likes of True Freedom Trust or Exodus or whatever, we saw organisations set up to provide healing for people who habitually lie, covet, make an idol of money, gossip, slander, malign...  But we don’t do we?  Which says all what needs to be said on the subject, really...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently got into a tussle with a few of commenters on ++Cranmer’s blog – in short over something similar: in this case, the presumption that because one gay person thinks or feels about something in one way, it does not mean that all gay people think and feel about something in the same way.  Yet this syllogistic logic appears in another guise when it comes to Christians.  Apparently, when someone makes a criticism or notes the failings of a person’s personal experience of a few Christians, this is then seen as maligning all Christians?</p>
<p>I have read the article and I cannot see any evidence of a bias aimed at showing ‘Christians’ per se in a bad light.  It has to be remembered there are people out there who seem fixated on the subject of homosexuality (and here I don’t mean Revd Peter Ould or Dr Peter Saunders – both of whom fight a difficult battle from a conservative foundation) who do need to be called to account.  The trouble is with a journalistic article – or even a journal article (I’ve produced and had published both forms or writing) is that whatever the initial article may have looked like, it will be edited down for space and given an editorial spin.  In this case, I don’t think it is painting Christians in a bad light – I do think more could have been said about positive healing or support (tho’ I’ve not come across much in my experience!) but the article is subjective, concerning the experience of one man, so it will, by necessity, keep returning to his view.</p>
<p>The following is from a letter I wrote to someone who claimed organisations like True Freedom Trust could provide help and support for homosexuals.  As I had had contact with the organisation in the late 80s, I thought I’d share my experiences:</p>
<p>“There are those who choose to participate in homosexual acts, either for kicks or because of circumstances (e.g. prisoners), but those who know themselves to be homosexual are usually aware of the fact before they reach puberty – I certainly did.  I have spent the intervening years (more than thirty) looking for healing and praying that one day I will wake up a heterosexual or at least not troubled by the fact my emotional and sexual needs cannot be met by an Evangelical or conservative understanding of the Bible.  I have had counselling, I’ve been anointed, I’ve been prayed for, over and about and I’ve had more hands laid on me than a Magistrate’s Bible.  I have sought out people and organisations around the country I think will be able to help and more than anything else I have prayed and prayed and wept and hated myself because of my ‘failings’.  I have dabbled with Wimber and immersed myself in sacraments.  I have spent years being celibate.  I have been so overcome with self-hatred that on more than one occasion have come close to killing myself.  I have struggled on for years being a celibate homosexual in churches that mark you out as different, as someone who needs to be kept an eye on.  I have had several long-term relationships with women: thankfully each has ended in an enduring friendship despite them being relationships doomed to failure as life-long partnerships&#8230;</p>
<p>[There are attempts at] healing and support in a Church setting that may give a homosexual person the hope of ‘wholeness’.  Tho’ I have to confess my distrust of the heresy evident in much popular Christian ‘healing’ and its understanding of ‘wholeness’.   Esp. when you see the rows of Christian ‘penny-dreadfuls’ on the subject, in any Christian bookshop.  Many healing paradigms combine popular psychology with its understanding of the self that is rooted in a Humanist/non-Christian/Enlightenment view of personality and throw in bits and pieces from Scripture to prove it is ‘Christian’ – often quoted out of context. This was certainly true (in my eyes, at least) of True Freedoms Trust’s approach to healing when I had contact with the organisation in the late 80s; their website doesn’t indicate to me I should revise my opinion.  There is an uncomfortable and ironic marriage of counselling paradigms &#8211; with their associated concepts of wholeness and fulfilment &#8211; and Evangelical paradigms of human sexuality.  The two are mutually exclusive and the latter can only draw from certain aspects of the former and yet the former is used to provide an emotional and psychological defence against the privations of the latter.  In addition ‘healing’ itself can be very ‘me’ centred.  This is certainly evident in Hallett’s book ‘I’m Learning to Love’, which at times appears to be a love affair with his own past (which is not uncommon with ‘conversion narrative’ autobiographies – many display a curious pride in the ‘sins of the past’ that rather belie the depth of the supposed conversion); but also skates on pretty thin ice theologically with regard to notions of the self and the role of the Holy Spirit in individual healing (tho’ I must confess it is 26 years since I read the book – but my enduring memory is that it should be read with caution, as it is, like many of the books that grace Christian bookshelves, lacking in orthodox theology but heavy on the cult of the individual).  My experiences of ‘Wimber’ prayer and counselling, provided by a loving, but on hindsight, misguided woman in the house-group I attending for four years in Leeds, has given me a great mistrust of Charismatic ‘Christian Healing’.  Some of the ideas, concepts of sin and evil, and techniques used were more akin to magic and occult or Manichaean dualism than Christianity and I would strongly caution any homosexual (or anyone, for that matter!) looking for Christian counselling and healing to stay away from such methods, they are often employed by people seeking power over others rather than people looking for healing from God!!  Latterly, within a contemplative, monastic setting, I have also witnessed a tendency to promote the cult of the self – monastic life, despite its outward trappings, can be very ‘me’ centred.  Healing can become akin to idolatry: we covet, often worship, a notion of wholeness and fulfilment that is not always God’s purpose for us.  I have been guilty of this, striving to be a healthy and happy heterosexual.  Yet, I now realise my identity is found in Christ&#8230;.  But I would argue that this is seldom something we can achieve for own gratification or to fulfil the obsession many of us have for making ‘me’ feel better about ‘myself’.  A Christian friend of mine once told me how he had started picking up small change on the street, as he thought it was an act of humility.  I thought about this and realised that in telling me this, he was in fact taking pride in his humility.  Of course this is not possible and is indeed a kind of oxymoron.  Humility cannot be experienced by the self as something gratifying, in fact being humble negates the sensual side of our nature.  Humility is a sweet gift of grace, but it is not something we ourselves can be aware of.  The clearest example of this is Jesus’ words of abandonment on the Cross: there was no self-interest; there was none of the ‘aren’t I a good person able to suffer for God’.  He felt total abandonment as the humility wrought out of total obedience to the Will of the Father left him without consolation and without hope – only Love remained, a love which over came death.  Our lives too are sometimes hidden in God and the things that we are apt to think will make us holy are sometimes far from God’s purpose.  ”</p>
<p>The above was written nine or so years ago, but there is little that has changed in my thinking on the subject since – save the fact I am now one half of a same-sex relationship.  This, oddly enough, has moved me on from self-obsession and brought me a good deal of the personal and emotional happiness that was lacking in the first 40 years of my life.</p>
<p>So I have perhaps more than a dash of sympathy with anyone who speaks out against much that passes for ‘healing ministries’ within the Christian fold.  I would be more convinced of their veracity if in addition to the likes of True Freedom Trust or Exodus or whatever, we saw organisations set up to provide healing for people who habitually lie, covet, make an idol of money, gossip, slander, malign&#8230;  But we don’t do we?  Which says all what needs to be said on the subject, really&#8230;</p>
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