Wifey announces on Twitter she is not converting to Catholicism
After two years of attending and exploring the Catholic Church, last night Wifey announced on Twitter that she will not be continuing her swim across the Tiber and will remain in full communion with the Church of England.
Unbeknownst to me, Wifey has been wrestling, struggling, and praying about this for a few months, and so is certainly not a rash decision, and is final.
I suspect I will take a similar route; albeit, I will probably opt to no longer attend church.
One person predicted this would happen, some will be mortified, and there will be those rubbing their hands together with glee. It would seem the latter group have contributed to Caral’s decision.
I’m too depressed to go into details, so please don’t waste your time asking.
I will of course step down as a member of the Catholic Bloggers Guild.
I intend to continue blogging and Twittering as I still thoroughly enjoy both.
Sad day….heavy heart….
Tags: Christian Life, Church Life
August 8th, 2012 at 10:01 am
Not knowing the reasons for exploring I can only offer sympathy with what is clearly a decision that you have both struggled with. I swam the other way, from Catholicism to Baptism, it was a long, hard, much prayed over decision, one some members of my family will never accept. However I feel I have found a Church that not only reflects my personality and needs but is based on scripture rather than tradition.
I hope you both reach peace with where you are, and that rather than not attending any church you perhaps look at the others available.
August 8th, 2012 at 10:27 am
I am truly sorry for this, and for all the pain that has contributed to the decision.
Naturally, I pray it is not a final decision in either case, and I wish you both every blessing.
August 8th, 2012 at 11:28 am
I’d just like to echo Ben’s words. Whilst of course I hope you will both end up in visible communion with the Church, there is in the end a great mystery in how individuals live out their journey with God and I’d simply offer you both my best wishes and prayers on that journey.
August 8th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
So sorry to read this. I pray that you will reconsider – at least continue to attend Mass.
BTW, Jemima101 – St. Paul tells us to follow the traditions he gave while he was with the people he visited, as well as following what he wrote. So Scripture informs us that we cannot rely on Scripture alone…
August 8th, 2012 at 12:22 pm
A brave decision by both Caral and yourself Stuart. I think that I can appreciate the anguish you must have suffered to arrive at this point. But you have both been courageous enough to take the course best suited to you and your circumstances.
I will keep you both in my prayers.
Richard
August 8th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
Don’t panic. Its all part of the journey.
August 8th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
I would suggest you BOTH seek a church which suits both of you and make compromises to be part of that church. The denomination is less important and fellowship with other Christians
August 8th, 2012 at 5:31 pm
This is part of the journey. Take heart – this happens more often than not. Don’t give up.
August 8th, 2012 at 7:24 pm
Pray about it. Always the right thing to do.
And … consider carefully whether this is something you want to go through in public, blog post by blog post? We all waver to and fro on things like this. These are big decisions, after all.
Be honest with God, honest with yourself, and trust in Him, and He will not let you down.
August 8th, 2012 at 10:23 pm
Just remember, it’s always darkest before it goes pitch black.
Gam zeh ya’avor.
August 8th, 2012 at 11:05 pm
Hi Stuart. If I may make a rare comment (sorry my bog interactions have been pretty desultory lately) I’m aware you’re often remarkably honest in laying open your personal feelings and experience here in ways I wouldn’t myself. And lately you’ve seemed to me to be struggling more with depression again. I’d simply say thats never a good place to be making big decisions. What I would encourage you to do is talk it over with some real people in private, and perhaps find both a wise RC priest and a wise Anglican one who know something about spiritual direction to have those conversations with. In the meantime prayers for you both and how you accompany one another on possibly different paths of perhaps the same journey.
August 8th, 2012 at 11:07 pm
Oops – bog interactions have been fine, blog interactions less regular. Bad typo, and now too much information!! ????
August 9th, 2012 at 12:06 am
My heart goes out to you both Stuart. This cannot be easy. But huge admiration and respect as well. The most important thing is to be true to yourselves. Good luck to you both.
August 9th, 2012 at 1:38 am
If you have ears to listen and eyes to see, you will know when you’re called. Keep after it. Keep knocking.
August 9th, 2012 at 7:21 am
Jemima says
” I can only offer sympathy with what is clearly a decision that you have both struggled with. I swam the other way, from Catholicism to Baptism, it was a long, hard, much prayed over decision, one some members of my family will never accept. However I feel I have found a Church that not only reflects my personality and needs but is based on scripture rather than tradition.”
I can understand a Catholic family not accepting your decision! I suggest you need to revisit your decision with an understanding that scripture is part of tradition. Indeed you and your fellow Baptists (Baptism sic) owe their bible to the Catholic Church which defined it. In fact according to scripture the Church is the ‘pillar and ground of the truth’ – that is scripture itself acknowledges the Church! Baptist and other services are not in fact in accord with scripture. search the New Testament and you will find no other church service mentioned than the ‘breaking of bread with the prayers’ ie the Holy Communion.
Your last comment about finding a church to reflect your personality sounds to me like a church made in your own image, yes an idol. My friend you need to find not your own personal church but the Church of Jesus and the Apostles- jump into the Tiber and swim for your life, make your confession and be reconciled to not your church but the Church of Jesus Christ.
The Church of Jesus is not one choice among many, there is only one!
August 9th, 2012 at 7:43 am
Bartholomew, the Eastern Orthodox Church can throw a pretty similar argument back at the R.C. Church. You cannot both be right, but you can both be wrong.
August 9th, 2012 at 8:32 am
Tim
No argument there, the Orthodox are part of the catholic Church foundered by the Lord. Two lungs, one body I think Pope JP II said.
August 9th, 2012 at 8:37 am
May God bless you both wherever you go. I am sure you will both be a blessing to whichever church you attend (I do hope and pray that you find find a church community you can share in together).
August 9th, 2012 at 11:43 am
My point, which I don’t think you understood, was that the R.C. Church claims to be the One True Church and that others are in error. The E.O. Church claims to be the One True Church and that others (including the Pope’s claims) are in error. I am not E.O. But to my mind, and taking history into account, the E.O. has the stronger claim. Not that I agree necessarily with either side.
August 9th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
A sadness of course is that people have to choose between different churches. Perhaps one thing in which we can find union is joining with our Lord in his own prayer that we may be brought, through the grace of God, into full unity as the body of Christ, as an effective witness to Him…
I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given them, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become completely one, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. [John 17:20-23]
August 9th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
The RCC has of course MADE errors. That is no secret. But it is not IN error. Errors are, at times, within it. There is but one church built upon the rock upon which the gates of hell shall not prevail. “Those who trust in Him shall understand truth, and the faithful shall abide with Him in love; because grace and mercy are with His holy ones, and His care is with His elect.” (Wisdom 3:9)
August 9th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
I am sorry to hear of this decision; tho’ more because of the personal cost, rather than the decision itself. My own prediction (as you know) was that you would convert, but then very quickly come to regret your decision, so in some ways, getting out now is far better than doing it later.
In monastic life the hardest time for many monks and nuns is not the trials of the novitiate, but life after the final vow of Stability (popularly known as the ‘Life Vow’). From postulancy onwards there have been various goals to motivate one’s progress: clothing, novitiate, simple vows and finally life vows. Each milestone is both an outward sign of commitment and achievement, but also a step further into belonging and being part of a greater whole. To many, the journey itself is their driving ambition and on completion, when there are no more hoops to jump through, the monk or nun can feel rather at a loss. There are parallels with this process in many areas of life (marriage, career, recreational sports etc.).
The need to demonstrate an ‘outward sign of commitment and achievement… belonging and being part of a greater whole’ can often lead us down roads we realise we don’t want to be travelling (this change results in conducting a three point turn that involves grinding gears and the very real threat of backing into a ditch). The journey may have been pleasant enough but the destination is less appealing the nearer we get. What seemed like dreamy, mist shrouded spires from far away can be revealed to be ugly factories choked in a pernicious smog, on closer scrutiny.
Whatever, turning back before passing the city gate, where we’d revoke our former citizenship and alliances, is preferable to an ignoble and stealthy departure from its confines under cover of darkness or shame; yet worse leaving in an armed revolt fuelled by a vindictive, rebellious, anger. The journey must be conducted in part at least, before we turn back. We must, once the desire to wander is awakened, tread at least as far as necessary to see our would-be destination clearly enough to make a decision about whether we really want to sojourn there or not. That is all you have done, Stuart, even if the reasons for turning back are less easily identifiable – the destination may even appear more wholesome than my stark metaphor – but it is better to turn back now, if that is your wish, than enter into commitments and loyalties that burden a future departure.
For my part I don’t, as far as religion goes, think that there exists an earthy destination that can truly satisfy all our needs and desires. Even within what can seem (and even says it is) a unified whole, there are many factions and sub-groups; each keen to broadcast their own merits and spending much time and effort pointing out the failures and weaknesses of their rivals. Indeed, after being taken in by several such factions, I am wary of anyone or any group that declares ‘we are the way, the truth and the light!’.
History and the present demonstrate that once a group claims it has all the answers, it or those inspired by its rhetoric, seem to spend far more time telling us where others get it wrong and where the blame lies for various social and political ills – their own credo and practice, of course, is above reproach! In our Western past this symptom of religious dogmatism set neighbour against neighbour, led to war and many gruesome martyrdoms – now it just leads to lakes of internet digital diarrhoea and various species of reactionary conservatism, or woolly liberalism, populating the theatre of malice that passes for religious debate!
The way forward is perhaps to have a bit of a break, but not to wander too much at present. Stick to routines, wait, listen and if you find yourself getting excessively or irrationally angry or upset about something, sit back and try not to get sucked into the emotion – it’s usually a symptom of something else and sometimes we just have to try and switch off to the various competing desires and vagaries of the mind, until we are in a better place to deal with them.
A place I have found helpful is the Anglican monastery at Crawley Down, in Sussex – partly because it is a place that gives you space and it is fairly pleasant surroundings, but also because part of the vocation of the community is to pray for the unification of the Church (East, West Evangelical, Coptic etc.). Altho’ borrowing heavily from Orthodoxy, the community is a space where RCs, Evangelicals, Orthodox or people of no real faith have found something they can connect with that is outside of parish life, but also feeds into life outside the cloister. It’s not a utopia – and even has some dodgy associations (Vasulla Ryden being a favourite of a few brethren, tho’ thankfully not the superior) – but it can be somewhere out of the everyday Christian experience. There are similar places in your backyard – but at Crawley Down there isn’t the aping of the RC Church, that many Anglican communities fall foul of.
Don’t get overly worried about the present, tuck your heart up your sleeve for a while (as Roger notes above – and it s rare I agree with Roger) and just wait and see! You may yet ‘Pope’, just wait a while! I have a friend who is a Baptist Pastor – his wife is a professor of geology and an atheist – they’ve been together for years and have two lovely sons… It’s surprising how broad the ceiling can be in many a household!
Regards:
Peter Denshaw
London
August 9th, 2012 at 5:57 pm
@Carlos
I think in these discussions it can be too easy to forget that the Church is a collection of people, living stones. Stuart and Caral, wherever they go, are not joining the Church, but are helping to form the Church, with Christ and all those who follow Him. I’m sad to see them put off the Catholic Church, as any institution formed with people will have failings (and some tragically severe), but I do think if we focus on people first and dogma second we can find our Lord’s Church reaches across the divisions we men (and it is mostly men) have made.
God bless +
August 9th, 2012 at 6:42 pm
I was born a RC and haven’t had much to do with other faiths so don’t pretend to be an expert but one thing I think since starting the social media thing is we should be all singing from the same sheet. The division between Christ’s churches only helps the devil do his work. I hope and pray that in the future you may change your mind, however some of the most christian people I know aren’t RC. God bless the both of you.
August 9th, 2012 at 7:36 pm
@Fr Richard,
” – now it just leads to lakes of internet digital diarrhoea and various species of reactionary conservatism, or woolly liberalism, populating the theatre of malice that passes for religious debate!”
In hoc signo vinces†
Angels with dirty faces, someone has to get their hands dirty in the mix to unravel the deceit, even if they risk being misconstrued and condemned.
August 10th, 2012 at 8:59 pm
Ha! This my experience totally! I ‘left’ the church over a year ago but my wife stays in communion at our local CofE. I’m glad I left as the CofE has some big problems that really need sorting and quickly. I love the Catholic church but it would be wrong for me to split my marriage into two denominations. So I’m happy to be out in the desert while the wife continues her path in the CofE. All in all God knows what is in my heart and attending a building has nothing to do with my walk through faith. Enjoy the time away and explore what it means to be still and that He is God in your desert experience. You will love this time, trust me!
August 10th, 2012 at 9:14 pm
@ Bartholemew.
I am afraid the idea that there is one tue way to Christ is not only patronizing in the extreme but probably responsible for more people loosing faith then any other issue. The Catholic Churches claims to supremacy have no scriptural basis, they are historic, not theological constructs. That said if someone finds their journey helped by being Catholic, that is not about creating an idol but understanding what Christianity is, a living breathing, personal relationship with God, not a set of rituals.
As for the fact that all Churches owe the scriptures to the Council of Hippo, it does not mean the modern Catholic Church can lay personal claim to the Bible.
August 11th, 2012 at 5:08 pm
I’m sorry to hear you’re struggling with this. Ignoring all who’s right, who’s wrong arguments – I’ll be lighting a tea light for you to find the right place, which I’m sure you will. He is always there and faithful, whatever We do.