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	<title>Comments on: Are psychopaths evil personified? Perhaps not.</title>
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	<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/08/05/psychopaths-evil-personified/</link>
	<description>I am not out of my mind, most excellent Festus, but I utter words of sober truth.</description>
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		<title>By: Goy</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/08/05/psychopaths-evil-personified/comment-page-1/#comment-86573</link>
		<dc:creator>Goy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2012 14:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;In hoc signo vinces†&lt;/b&gt;

&lt;i&gt;&quot;The problem is not a defect of conscience but the effort to deny the conscience its due. We become evil by attempting to hide from ourselves.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Scapegoating so close to what I term projected self-loathing - a collective psychopathy of race or/and cultural self-hatred that manifests itself as multiculturalism in order to destroy the race/culture they are in conflict with.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>In hoc signo vinces†</b></p>
<p><i>&#8220;The problem is not a defect of conscience but the effort to deny the conscience its due. We become evil by attempting to hide from ourselves.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Scapegoating so close to what I term projected self-loathing &#8211; a collective psychopathy of race or/and cultural self-hatred that manifests itself as multiculturalism in order to destroy the race/culture they are in conflict with.</p>
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		<title>By: Goy</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/08/05/psychopaths-evil-personified/comment-page-1/#comment-86531</link>
		<dc:creator>Goy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 21:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Looks like the Church diagnosis of excessive scrupulosity and perverted pride got there before the psychiatrists diagnosis of scapegoating.

There is more to fear from the respectable pen pushing scapegoating psychopath than the rarer gun-toting variety.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like the Church diagnosis of excessive scrupulosity and perverted pride got there before the psychiatrists diagnosis of scapegoating.</p>
<p>There is more to fear from the respectable pen pushing scapegoating psychopath than the rarer gun-toting variety.</p>
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		<title>By: Simian</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/08/05/psychopaths-evil-personified/comment-page-1/#comment-86525</link>
		<dc:creator>Simian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 18:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for reminding me of the original post, which I still find intriguing Stuart.  I was particularly taken by this fragment from Lynda Alsford&#039;s comment:  &lt;i&gt;I find it hard that someone could be born with a condition that prohibits them from finding God – in a real, personal way. It conflicts with my view of God as someone who can always save everyone. In fact it is situations like this which make me lean more towards the universalistic view point of salvation.&lt;/i&gt; 
My view entirely.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for reminding me of the original post, which I still find intriguing Stuart.  I was particularly taken by this fragment from Lynda Alsford&#8217;s comment:  <i>I find it hard that someone could be born with a condition that prohibits them from finding God – in a real, personal way. It conflicts with my view of God as someone who can always save everyone. In fact it is situations like this which make me lean more towards the universalistic view point of salvation.</i><br />
My view entirely.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Trovato</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/08/05/psychopaths-evil-personified/comment-page-1/#comment-86424</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Trovato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2012 21:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Fascinating stuff, though not an area I&#039;m competent to comment on.  But intrigued to read and learn!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating stuff, though not an area I&#8217;m competent to comment on.  But intrigued to read and learn!</p>
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		<title>By: webmaster</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/08/05/psychopaths-evil-personified/comment-page-1/#comment-86404</link>
		<dc:creator>webmaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2012 17:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Some absolutely exceptional and insightful thoughts and analysis Fr Richard. Very knowledgable and completely in tune with &#039;where I&#039;m at currently&#039;. So thank you.

There&#039;s this little quote which so encapsulates your thoughts:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Christian doctrine also insists that we are forgiven our sins - at least as long as we experience contrition for them. Fully realising the extent of our own sinfulness, we are likely to feel almost hopelessness if we do not simultaneously believe in the merciful and forgiving nature of the Christian God. Thus the Church, when in its right mind, will also insist that to endlessly dwell on each and every small sin one has committed (a process know as &quot;excessive scrupulosity&quot;) is itself a sin. Since God forgives us, to fail to forgive ourselves is to hold ourselves higher than God, thereby indulging in the sin of perverted pride.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I believe this is an insight you have articulated on a few occasions, and I have been somewhat personally grateful for that, as someone who has struggled along these lines.

The theological problem you raise regarding &#039;everyone made in the image of God&#039; is again very poignant and I suppose we could tackle that from the premise that those &#039;evil&#039; or &#039;psychopathic&#039; have likely been pushed into this, perhaps from traumatic childhood experiences. So not made that way, but moulded that way.

I absolutely loved this comment:

&lt;i&gt;So much effort is put into outward appearances and they (unlike those with other personality deficits) know how to make the most of social cues.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s very astute to note the ability of some personality disordered to pick up social cues and then in a sense mimic these for their own gain. I would posit that narcissistic, histrionic, sociopathic, psychopathic, and the like, are skilled in the arena of correctly observing and manipulating social rules and cues to their own advantage.

As you rightly point out, other personality disorders are remarkably inept at decoding social cues. 

Anyway, I had exactly the same thoughts as you regarding &quot;scapegoating&quot;, but you probably already guessed that. ;-)

One of the quotes from the book I declined as &quot;Quote of the Day&quot; basically questioned what better place for &#039;evil&#039; to hide than inside the church, especially given their drive to appear outwardly so righteous and morally pure.

Food for thought.

Again thanks for taking the time with this comment and really engaging and striking at the heart of the post; got me thinking.....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some absolutely exceptional and insightful thoughts and analysis Fr Richard. Very knowledgable and completely in tune with &#8216;where I&#8217;m at currently&#8217;. So thank you.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s this little quote which so encapsulates your thoughts:</p>
<blockquote><p>Christian doctrine also insists that we are forgiven our sins &#8211; at least as long as we experience contrition for them. Fully realising the extent of our own sinfulness, we are likely to feel almost hopelessness if we do not simultaneously believe in the merciful and forgiving nature of the Christian God. Thus the Church, when in its right mind, will also insist that to endlessly dwell on each and every small sin one has committed (a process know as &#8220;excessive scrupulosity&#8221;) is itself a sin. Since God forgives us, to fail to forgive ourselves is to hold ourselves higher than God, thereby indulging in the sin of perverted pride.</p></blockquote>
<p>I believe this is an insight you have articulated on a few occasions, and I have been somewhat personally grateful for that, as someone who has struggled along these lines.</p>
<p>The theological problem you raise regarding &#8216;everyone made in the image of God&#8217; is again very poignant and I suppose we could tackle that from the premise that those &#8216;evil&#8217; or &#8216;psychopathic&#8217; have likely been pushed into this, perhaps from traumatic childhood experiences. So not made that way, but moulded that way.</p>
<p>I absolutely loved this comment:</p>
<p><i>So much effort is put into outward appearances and they (unlike those with other personality deficits) know how to make the most of social cues.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s very astute to note the ability of some personality disordered to pick up social cues and then in a sense mimic these for their own gain. I would posit that narcissistic, histrionic, sociopathic, psychopathic, and the like, are skilled in the arena of correctly observing and manipulating social rules and cues to their own advantage.</p>
<p>As you rightly point out, other personality disorders are remarkably inept at decoding social cues. </p>
<p>Anyway, I had exactly the same thoughts as you regarding &#8220;scapegoating&#8221;, but you probably already guessed that. <img src='http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>One of the quotes from the book I declined as &#8220;Quote of the Day&#8221; basically questioned what better place for &#8216;evil&#8217; to hide than inside the church, especially given their drive to appear outwardly so righteous and morally pure.</p>
<p>Food for thought.</p>
<p>Again thanks for taking the time with this comment and really engaging and striking at the heart of the post; got me thinking&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Fr Richard</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2012/08/05/psychopaths-evil-personified/comment-page-1/#comment-86399</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2012 15:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/?p=26320#comment-86399</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think this is a very interesting and novel approach to the subject.  I have only come across true psychopaths a few times in my life and I have been struck by the fact the ones I’ve met have on first meeting seemed like really good people.  So much effort is put into outward appearances and they (unlike those with other personality deficits) know how to make the most of social cues.  Yet I have been almost in awe of their sense of self-importance, of their all encompassing narcissism, which is often the giveaway that something is very wrong at the heart of these people.

The problem, from a Christian perspective, is that theology tells us that everyone is made in the image of God and no matter how distorted that image may seem, it is nevertheless redeemable – to say otherwise is to make nonsense of the Cross.

I do feel that many of us get bogged down in the notion of ‘feelings’ – we have to feel remorse and compunction before we can repent.  However this in itself can be an exercise in narcissism and it is an unfortunate trait of the religiously devout, in particular, that they tend to get fixated on the ‘sins’ that bother their conscience, rather than those which hinder their progress as believers.  Yes, the two can be compatible, particularly in the early parts of the journey of faith, but great care is needed not to get overly interested in what offends the self at the expense of what offends others and God.  It is tempting to take pride in the fact that one has attended mass every day for the duration of Lent, that one has cheerfully given 10% of one’s earnings to worthy causes and overcome or avoided certain temptations; but if you treat the girl on the checkout at Tesco’s like scum or feel that you are morally superior to your follow parishioners, then whatever you give and whatever sacrifices you make are worthless.

The best way forward I have found with those with psychopathic tendencies is to be ruthlessly blunt in one’s conversation.  As I wrote in a letter to a priest friend who at present is having problems with a parishioner with mental health problems: “What I have found particularly useful is the need to be clear in one’s communication. It is useless getting into complicated discussions and arguments: clear, unambiguous statements are far better than buttery English charm! This needs to be tempered with an obvious interest and compassion for the person afflicted by the problem. But I must stress, pussy footing around and leaving any ambiguity is useless and actually causes more problems. Bluntness is often the only way something can be understood – ‘You are doing X, because you want to achieve Y’ can be rather disarming!’  

It is a difficult area Stuart – thank you for raising it.

As an aside, I must confess I inwardly smiled after reading the first paragraph of your quote: “A predominant characteristic, however, of the behaviour of those I call evil is scapegoating. Because in their hearts they consider themselves beyond reproach, they must lash out at anyone that does reproach them. They sacrifice others to preserve their self-image of perfection...”

It made me think of the current obsession some of Christian brethren have with all things tinged pink (i.e. homosexuality).  I suspect the disproportionate interest some of our conservative chums have in the subject is rooted in a similar social and psychological mechanism as noted in this quote!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a very interesting and novel approach to the subject.  I have only come across true psychopaths a few times in my life and I have been struck by the fact the ones I’ve met have on first meeting seemed like really good people.  So much effort is put into outward appearances and they (unlike those with other personality deficits) know how to make the most of social cues.  Yet I have been almost in awe of their sense of self-importance, of their all encompassing narcissism, which is often the giveaway that something is very wrong at the heart of these people.</p>
<p>The problem, from a Christian perspective, is that theology tells us that everyone is made in the image of God and no matter how distorted that image may seem, it is nevertheless redeemable – to say otherwise is to make nonsense of the Cross.</p>
<p>I do feel that many of us get bogged down in the notion of ‘feelings’ – we have to feel remorse and compunction before we can repent.  However this in itself can be an exercise in narcissism and it is an unfortunate trait of the religiously devout, in particular, that they tend to get fixated on the ‘sins’ that bother their conscience, rather than those which hinder their progress as believers.  Yes, the two can be compatible, particularly in the early parts of the journey of faith, but great care is needed not to get overly interested in what offends the self at the expense of what offends others and God.  It is tempting to take pride in the fact that one has attended mass every day for the duration of Lent, that one has cheerfully given 10% of one’s earnings to worthy causes and overcome or avoided certain temptations; but if you treat the girl on the checkout at Tesco’s like scum or feel that you are morally superior to your follow parishioners, then whatever you give and whatever sacrifices you make are worthless.</p>
<p>The best way forward I have found with those with psychopathic tendencies is to be ruthlessly blunt in one’s conversation.  As I wrote in a letter to a priest friend who at present is having problems with a parishioner with mental health problems: “What I have found particularly useful is the need to be clear in one’s communication. It is useless getting into complicated discussions and arguments: clear, unambiguous statements are far better than buttery English charm! This needs to be tempered with an obvious interest and compassion for the person afflicted by the problem. But I must stress, pussy footing around and leaving any ambiguity is useless and actually causes more problems. Bluntness is often the only way something can be understood – ‘You are doing X, because you want to achieve Y’ can be rather disarming!’  </p>
<p>It is a difficult area Stuart – thank you for raising it.</p>
<p>As an aside, I must confess I inwardly smiled after reading the first paragraph of your quote: “A predominant characteristic, however, of the behaviour of those I call evil is scapegoating. Because in their hearts they consider themselves beyond reproach, they must lash out at anyone that does reproach them. They sacrifice others to preserve their self-image of perfection&#8230;”</p>
<p>It made me think of the current obsession some of Christian brethren have with all things tinged pink (i.e. homosexuality).  I suspect the disproportionate interest some of our conservative chums have in the subject is rooted in a similar social and psychological mechanism as noted in this quote!</p>
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