Rev Nick Howard Publicly Accuses Rev Stephen Sizer of Anti-Semitism
To be honest with you, I tussled over posting this. Anti-Semitism is a grave accusation indeed and that is exactly what Rev Nick Howard accuses Rev Stephen Sizer of today over on Harry’s Place.
Although it goes without saying that Sizer is an anti-Zionist, I don’t believe I have seen the open accusation of anti-Semitism before.
I’m blogging this because it’s no trifling matter. The Rev Nick Howard is a well known Anglican cleric, being the son of former Conservative leader Michael Howard and the platform used to make these allegations is an internationally prominent political blog.
In view of the seriousness of the accusations, I’m simply offering the link for your information, with no comment on my part:
Harry’s Place – Rev Nick Howard: The Church of England must take action against Rev Stephen Sizer
Tags: Christianity, Church Life, Israel
December 27th, 2011 at 7:55 pm
The son of Michael Howard … that is, Nick Howard is Jewish? So he’s basically saying that Mr Sizer isn’t allowed to criticise people of Howard’s race, because they are Jews? Stephen Sizer, I imagine, will retort with the race card, not entirely unfairly.
I’m so tired of these identity politics. I’m generally pro-Israeli, and opposed to Stephen Sizer’s politics. But we should all be opposed to any group whatsoever that has the insolence to demand that they, their precious selves, should be untouchable, above criticism, may only be approached with respect, etc etc. Damn their arrogance.
If this is the attitude of any group in society to the rest of us, then I can only suggest that we encourage their enemies until they get the message.
PS: Oh I see: he’s only trying to get Sizer dismissed, and his family deprived of their livelihood.
So tired of the merciless hate and arrogance everywhere in our days. Sizer may be wrong, but he certainly has the right to be fool if he chooses.
December 28th, 2011 at 9:47 am
@ Roger Pearse,
Nick Howard is categorically NOT saying that it is wrong for Sizer (or anyone else) to criticise Jews or Israel. You only need to read the pages of the Jewish Chronicle to realise that the Jewish people themselves do this all the time.
What Howard is saying is that Sizer has a long-term pattern of behaviour that goes far beyond legitimate criticism. He has supported and associated with supporters of terrorism, holocaust deniers, and conspiracy theorists. He comes very close to inciting hatred of Jewish people.
Sizer’s actions bring shame onto himself, his church, and ultimately the God he claims to serve. Is it any wonder that Howard thinks he’s unfit for his position?
December 28th, 2011 at 12:05 pm
Rev Howard is right to bring this to the Church’s attention. Stephen Sizer is active in speaking to Bible students and in evangelical churches that do not understand the anti-Semitic nuances of what he is saying, and opposes Jewish evangelism, the most anti-Semitic thing you can do. This analysis of his character is long overdue.
December 28th, 2011 at 6:13 pm
The Palestinian narrative has long since been a cover for antisemitism both in U.K. politics and the churches, an anti-semitic narrative that has been reinforced by a large section of the immigrant population in the U.K.
December 29th, 2011 at 10:53 am
Neither is Nick an “Anglican Clergyperson”. He did study for the Anglican Ministry and declined Ordination for his own reasons. He now works as an independent preacher / teacher. He is quite active within the British Messianic Jewish movement.
This is brave of Nick, and will hopefully result in action being taken by the Church of England against Sizer.
December 29th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
@ Lesley, as a Sizer-watcher, I’ve seen no evidence that he opposes Jewish evangelism. If you know otherwise please tell us.
@ Glasspole, it was reported (and I don’t know if it’s true or not) that Nick Howard was refused ordination by the Diocese of Oxford, not that he declined it. Perhaps they said that they would only ordain him if he agreed to water down his convictions. However, Nick indicated in a comment on Harry’s Place that he was ordained in Nov 2010 by the Anglican Church in North America. This group broke away from the Episcopal Church because of its liberalism, and although they are not part of the Anglican Communion they do consider themselves to be Anglican. I do think it is misleading to describe him as an “anglican clergyman” without explaining the actual situation.
December 29th, 2011 at 11:01 pm
Hi Tony – I do not want to name names on a public website, but can assure you that Sizer is no friend of mission organisations. If this is an important issue for you, I would suggest that you talk to some of them directly.
December 29th, 2011 at 11:20 pm
@ Lesley, I am familiar with the Jewish missions “scene” in the UK, and have contacts in many of the organisations. I think it’s fair to say that all the Jewish missions are Zionist to some extent, and for that reason they have big problems with Sizer. His anti-Zionism, anti-semitism, and replacement theology, seriously hinder the work of reaching Jewish people with the good news. However, that’s completely different to saying that Sizer opposes Jewish evangelism. I have seen absolutely nothing from him that would suggest this. He’s a conservative evangelical and believes in mission and evangelism to all. Please, if there is evidence from Sizer’s writings etc to support your claim, do share it with us.
December 30th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
@ Roger Pearse – I think you need to read what Nick Howard says before you express comments like that. Nick Howard nowhere says that his race are untouchable.
And you really need to take a look at Sizer’s polemics to understand why Nick Howard is taking this course of action.
January 6th, 2012 at 10:21 am
Having read Stephen Sizer’s books and even listened to him on a recent revelation tv debate, I believe he loves Jewish people and longs for them (but not exclusively them) to know the Lord Jesus. At the same time, he longs for every nation to come to know Him and because he cares that the Lord Jesus be glorified amongst Muslim people, too, that does not therefore mean he is opposed to Jewish people coming to know Jesus as their Messiah! No member of the body of Christ can fail to have a deep love for the lost, whatever their race/creed/gender etc. So, to Nick and Stephen and all my siblings in Christ, how wonderful that “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus”.
January 6th, 2012 at 12:35 pm
@ Suzy, Sizer cannot love Jewish people as he expresses support for those who wish to see Jews killed and their country destroyed. He promotes a distorted view of the Arab / Israel conflict that demonises Israel. This is anti-semitism, period.
January 6th, 2012 at 6:25 pm
@ Suzy,
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus”.
In faith not in attributed function.
January 28th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
@Goy – I don’t understand “in faith not in attributed function” – could you explain further? Many thanks.
@ Tony – if one accepts ‘replacement theology’ – I hesitate to use that shorthand as it may mean different things to different people – but is one automatically antisemitic?
Jesus, too, was criticised for the company he kept – but how does one love one’s enemies without engaging with them?
January 29th, 2012 at 12:37 am
It’s time leaders in the Church of England asked the Lord to open their understanding of the New Covenant. Then they would not mistake who God’s people are.
January 29th, 2012 at 9:42 am
Suzy,
Let’s look at that verse you quote “there is neither Jew nor Greek, neither male nor female, neither slave nor free” .
The fact that churches debate the place of women in leadership demonstrates that they believe that there are still ACTUAL males and females even though they are “one in Christ”. All churches still have distinct male and female toilets. Slaves and free men never had any alteration of social status after conversion.
It simply mean that they were united in Christ, even though still distinct in role. The same consistent interpretation must be applied to the Jews and Gentiles. I guess this is what Goy is trying to get at.
January 29th, 2012 at 9:46 am
Isleander –
“It’s time leaders in the Church of England asked the Lord to open their understanding of the New Covenant. Then they would not mistake who God’s people are.”.
Or simply read it in the New Testament. Romans 9 tells us plainly – People who are physical Israelites, the brothers of Jesus according to the flesh and those who were given the law. Note the present tense:
I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
January 29th, 2012 at 10:27 am
Dear Chris – yes, the male/female and slave/free (employee/boss?) I get, and in the case of male/female I see with my eyes (in most cases). What I’d like to understand is what the ‘attributed function’ of Jew and Gentile is – the expression used by Goy on 6th Jan. Thanks for helping. Suzy
January 29th, 2012 at 10:38 am
Hello again Chris – looking at your reply to Isleander and at Romans 9 you quote, the chapter goes on to say, and quoting the Prophets (v25…): “25 As indeed he says in Hosea,
“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people’,
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved’.”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people’,
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God’.”
27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel[c] be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, 28 for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.”
The opening verses of the chapter you quote “3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. 4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. 5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed for ever. Amen” do introduce the Israelites – but the rest of the chapter may be summed up in “For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” And so on down through the generations there were those who rebelled and those who listened to the true Prophets.
January 29th, 2012 at 10:53 am
Hi Suzy,
When Paul says “For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel” he simply means that not every physical Israelite is a spiritual Israelite.
The whole point he makes in Romans 9 is that the righteousness of God comes by faith and that just by being born an Israelite is not enough. A physical Israelite must also have the faith of Abraham. But he also later says that “All Israel will be saved” at the end of chapter 11 and that there is currently a temprorary, partial blindness upon many Israelites -those who rebelled. So nationally the promises of God still apply to them even though most are in unbelief.
January 29th, 2012 at 12:41 pm
Thanks Chris – my understanding is the same – I guess the only area we might disagree is our respective appreciation of “all Israel will be saved”. My understanding is that those who rebel will not enter God’s rest, irrespective of their ‘flesh’. But whilst there’s life (on earth) there’s hope, that ALL (Jews who don’t yet know the Messiah, ‘cultural Christians, those of other faiths or none ) who put their trust in the death of Jesus, the perfect sacrificial lamb, have their sins blotted out and paid for, and having been made righteous in Jesus may enjoy God forever!
February 16th, 2012 at 12:27 am
I have heard Rev Sizer and he is very impressive in tackling Zionism which has caused so many problems and brought about so many deaths and breaches of human rights nad international law. I appreciate Nick’s Jewish background but is it the best course of action to go around calling for action to be taken against someone you disagree with. How Israeli!
February 16th, 2012 at 9:13 am
@ Ron Crawford,
Your comment is highly biased (just like Sizer) and comes across as blaming the Jews, an attitude associated with anti-semitism.
The absence of a Jewish state contributed to millions of deaths and breaches of human rights over the best part of 2000 years (culminating in the holocaust). Should that not be taken into consideration, or is Jewish blood less important? The main cause of the “problems” is the failure of the Arabs to recognise Israel. Israel has no desire to wage war but is forced to when she is attacked. Alan Dershowitz recently made an excellent point which you would do well to remember – “Name one country in the whole history of the world that, when faced with comparable threats to what Israel faces, has shown more respect for human rights and international law”. No-one to date has been able to answer this. So Israel is being a positive example and a light to the nations.
Regarding Nick’s call for action, it hasn’t resulted from a disagreement, which no-one would take issue with. Sizer has crossed the line between legitimate criticism of Israel and anti-semitism, and that is what’s unacceptable.
February 16th, 2012 at 10:11 am
Zionist always play the race card to excuse their human rights abuses in Palestine. All blood is equally important and Israel has shed more of it than most. I attended a meeting last night where two WCC observers gave a talk on what Israel is doing on the West Bank to the Palestinians on their on land. I heard of how the IDF stands by while Zionist settlers from afar attack Palestinians, their olive groves and flocks. They muscle on to their land and build their illegal settlements as they seek to etnically cleanse the West Bank. I will not even mention the brutality of the Gaza invasion. Israel is one of the most heavily armed countries in the world and this “threat to their existence” does not excuse their fascist activities sponsored by the frenzied Zionists in USA. I have a great regard for the Jewish faith and each year i attend the holocaust commemorations. That is why i do not want to see another elected fascist state repeat the atrocities of the past and Israeli is simply beyond the pale of a civilised nation. I am grateful to Stephen for exposing the irrationality of Zionist belief. God does not condone the breaking of His laws in Israelis quest to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians from their own land.
February 16th, 2012 at 10:54 am
@ Ron Crawford,
The people you heard last night almost certainly only presented half the story. The Israel government does order the IDF to remove illegal settlements – I don’t know the details (but could look them up). But did you know that should a Palestinian state ever come into existence, it has been made clear that not a single Jew will be allowed to live there. That’s ethnic cleansing and apartheid, and you don’t get it in Israel where Jews and Arabs have equal rights. As far as the Gaza invasion is concerned, do you expect Israel to stand idly by whilst thousands of rockets are fired at it? Israel is a highly civilised nation – it’s the only democracy in the middle east whose citizens enjoy all the freedoms we have. Arabs in Israel have far more freedoms than arabs in muslim countries. Most Palestinians actually say they would rather live under Israeli rule that Palestinian rule. What is irrational about the Jewish people wanting to return to their historic homeland that they were brutally expelled from? There isn’t really such a thing as Palestinian land – the idea of Palestinian national identity was created by Yasser Arafat (a terrorist) to use as a weapon against Israel. It didn’t exist before then, because there has never been a country called Palestine. But Israel is happy for Arabs to live peacefully in the country, something they have repeatedly refused to do.
February 16th, 2012 at 11:46 pm
Tony, I must question your values which may have been distorted by your defence of the indefensible. Are you reading from an Israeli govt propaganda sheet? You insult the Palestinians by telling them they never had a country. That is the basis for the Israelis treatment of the Arabs in their own land. Have you read the Balfour declaration which specifically mentions “palestine”. Have you seen the land they occupied in 1917 and the land which they occupy now? Have you seen a people live under watchtours, razor wire and walls which virtually imprison them? Have you seen how they are restricted in access to their own fields, crops and livestock? Have you seen the thousands of homes demolished by the IDF leaving men women and children sitting on the roadside homeless? Have you seen how they are allowed no access to the outside world and even the results of their labour have to be marketed through Israel? Have you seen the lush gardens of the belligerent settlers in the Jordan valley, with their swimming pools whilst the displaced natives a few yards away have a restricted and intermittent water supply? Have you seen how Israelis can drive about unhindered whilst Palestinians spend hours at check points? In God’s name will you look at what these Zionists are doing to the beautiful Jewish faith. A faith based on the OT principles of honour and just dealing. And how can you condone the murder of journalists, cameramen, UN observers by the IDF? Does the God of the 10 commandments condone their transgression by a people who claim He has given them this land. I too, by faith in Christ have Abraham as my Father. Should I travel out there and annex Naboth’s vineyard so that I might settle in the land “God gave to me”. Why do Jews need their own land? Why not Anglicans or Methodists? Hebrews tells us that the land they sought was a heavenly one and it is there that I cherish my eventual settlement. Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world – here we have no continuing city. As for Gaza do you think the murder of over 400 children both Christian and Muslim was a proportionate response? Look at the figures provided by B’tselem an Israel human rights body; http://old.btselem.org/statistics/english/Casualties.asp
Living in Northern Ireland and having had a member of my family murdered by terrorists I hold no brief for the terrorism of Hamas or extra-judicial killings by Mossad but you cannot humiliate and subject a people to the deprivation of their human rights and not expect them to retaliate. Why cannot Israel simply say that in 12 months time they will withdraw to the pre 67 borders provided there are no attacks and at the end of 12 months all arms on both sides will be surrendered. Israel are one of the most heavily armed nations on earth and any prospect of them being cast into the sea is pure fiction. There is a bigger prospect of Israel extending its borders from the Med to the Euphrates. It is time for Israel to be brought to to the bar of interantional opinion and punished for her war crimes. Can I suggest you read the following article: http://apps.facebook.com/theguardian/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/feb/15/imperial-way-american-decline-noam-chomsky
February 17th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
@ Ron,
I’m not going to fully respond to your comment, not because I can’t, but because it would take too long.
It is a fact of history that there has never been a country called Palestine. That is not a reason for mis-treatment of Arabs in Israel, though. Palestine was a regional designation, like East Anglia in England. Arabs living in Palestine would have probably said they were “South Syrians”, as Palestinian was never used as a national identity prior to the PLO.
Palestine, as understood at the time of the Balfour declaration included the land of present-day Israel and Jordan. 77% of Palestine was used to create a new Arab state (then Transjordan, now just Jordan). Israel got just 23%, mostly swamp and desert. The Arabs got a very good deal – three times the land area of Israel, with lots of oil underneath it. But this wasn’t enough for them and so they attacked Israel, and they continue to do so to this day, from the inside. That’s why there are checkpoints, security fences and walls, watchtowers, and restrictions. Remember Arafat’s response when Israel offered almost everything he was wanting – “no to peace, no to negotiations, and no recognition of Israel”.
Also, when Israel was founded in 1948, the best part of a million Jews were expelled from arab states in the middle-east, and their property and family lands were confiscated. Again, the arabs got a good deal.
The Jewish people are a racial group (it’s not just religious) and all other races have countries to live in. Why shouldn’t they have one, especially as they were thrown out of it in the past?
The civilian casualties in the Gaza war were most regrettable (and I’m not sure about the accuracy of the figures you quote) but no country can stand by and allow terrorists to fire thousands of rockets at its citizens. And when the terrorists live amongst civilians, high levels of collateral damage are sadly inevitable, just as we’ve seen in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Arabs in Israel have far more human rights than arabs in muslim arabic states. And regarding the boundaries (the pre-67 boundaries are not borders, but that’s another thing), if Israel withdrew and both sides disarmed, I can guarantee you that the surrounding Arab nations would flood arms (and probably soldiers as well) into this new “palestinian” state and then invade Israel.
That’s all I have time for.
February 18th, 2012 at 10:48 am
Thanks for your reply Tony. As an Ulster Presbyterian I come across the same problems as the Palestianians. Republicans refer to us as Planters as my ancestors came here as the result of the plantation of Ulster in the 1600′s. I have never lived anywhere else. I do not want to live anywhere else and this is my home. As Wreford’s great hymn puts it;
Our fathers’ sepulchres are here,
And here our kindred dwell;
Our children, too:—how should we love
Another land so well!
Yet it is that epoch in our history which is a prime cause of the divisions here. Nick Howard talks about Stephen associating with those who advocate violence. The IRA man who shot my brother was himself shot dead six weeks later as he tried to ambush another soldier. At his funeral the eulogy was given by an IRA commander who has been responsible for the murder of many people. He said how my brother’s killer was a great son of Ireland fighting against the forces of occupation. That man was Martin McGuiness who by the work of British governments including in its ranks Michael Howard, is now the Deputy First Minister of this part of the UK. I hope Nick has discussed that with his father. I met McGuiness a few years ago and reminded him of his words and actions and we shook hands on leaving and he said “God bless you Ronnie”.
It is my relationship with Christ that enabled me to shake hands with McGuiness because I do not want them to shape my character. And as far as land is concerned, whether Ireland is united or divided is not of huge consequence to me.
It boils down to how I treat my fellow man and Jesus has taught us how to act. What Israel is doing is contrary to the teachings of Jesus and exemplifies an inhumanity from which the Jews once suffered themselves. At a public meeting recently a obvious Zionist excused all the crimes Israelis were committing by saying “ah but they are God’s chosen people”. I told him I thought it was a blasphemy to suggest that anyone could trample God’s laws underfoot and justify their sin by claiming they were doing it for God. What Israel is doing in the West Bank is more closely associated with Nazism than NT teaching. Take the way they control the water. An Israeli uses 4 times more water than a Palestinian – a settler 6 times. Palestinians use tankered water which is a huge cause of amoebic diarrhoea and it takes up a large whack of their meagre income. In Gaza the salinity of the water has created kidney stone and “blue baby” syndrome – a narrowing of the veins. Yet the Israelis will not allow a treatment plant. US aid has funded a Jordanian well drilling machine in Hebron but the Israelis have banned its use as it could be a danger to aircraft!!
Anyone can see that all of Israelis policies are directed towards ethnic cleansing and it is only by the support of USA that they can defy international law and basic humanity. It is encouraging to see many Israelis themselves condemn the actions of their government and now we hear Israel is ready to bomb Iran. OK for Israel to have the N bomb but no one else.
My principle concern is the immense damage which is being done to the Gospel by the likes of Nick and his fellow Zionists. Many Christians have laid down their lives because of the perception that all of the west is on a crusade to destroy Islam. Christians have been driven from Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and their churches and homes burned. Pakistan and Nigeria are also affected. Do we see any concern or compassion on the face of these Zionists? I have some WB and Gaza friends on Facebook and they tell me that the hardest thing for them to accept is that the Israeli bombs and bullets and tear gas causing such grief and destruction to their homes and lives is paid for by their fellow Christians in USA. God is against injustice where it raises its ugly head, whether is be in Auschwitz or Hebron. And He expects His people everywhere to follow His example. My disappointment is that it is the left who are speaking out and organising the boycotts etc. whilst so many Christians put the telescope to their blind eye. God is watching. I do hope you will reflect on these things. Best wishes Ron
February 18th, 2012 at 7:56 pm
Ron,
If you like the boycotts, just organise one yourself. You can start with these instructions:
In your office or home, do not use any computers, as Israel developed the Intel Pentium chip, Windows MP, XP and Vista as well as Microsoft Office and AOL IM instant messaging. Also remove your Internet security firewalls, as these were developed in Israel.
Do not use Google as the algorithm (the online search method) for Google was developed in Israel.
In your home and car, do not use your cellphones that were developed in Israel by Motorola, as was voice mail and camera phones. Quickly destroy your TV remote control, as this also was developed in Israel.
As for your health, do not under any circumstances let your gastroenterologist use the camera pill you swallow that photographs your esophagus, colon, etc. Just let him ram his scope up your backside. That will show those Zionists who’s in charge. Don’t use Copaxane for MS.
If you have a heart attack, do not let the surgeon put in a stint, which was developed in Israel, or use a defibrillator on you.
Also decline the new Israel medication from Israel for Parkinson’s or Ex Ablate 2000 if you have fibroid tumors.
Lastly, should you visit Haiti, please apologize to the thousands of people there whose lives were saved by the Israel Defense Forces IDF field hospital after a devastating earthquake. Israel NGO humanitarian groups are still in Haiti providing food, shelter and education.
Want to boycott Israel? Turn your computer off.
(Courtesy of Joel Leyden, Israel News Agency)
February 19th, 2012 at 10:13 am
Many thanks for that piece of Israeli propaganda Chris staright from the pages of Google search. What a pity all these wonderful discoveries, aided no doubt by Uncle Sam’s dollars are of no use to those held under their brutal military dicatorship. And what a pity that so many of the Palestinians do not see the humanitarian aid offered to Haiti. Perhaps after they have sorted out Haiti they will provide shelter for the men women and children whose homes they have destroyed and allow children unfettered access to their own schools and preserve them from the attacks of the barbarian settlers! Seems to me that the IDF will have their hands so full they may not manage to bomb homes, schools, mosques and churches or indeed shoot UN workers, photographers and reporters.
And perhaps they could supply some water to the locals who supply has been diverted to fill the settlers’ swimming pools. As for the drugs tell that to the people of Gaza who are denied proper drugs by their military dictators.
And Chris, before you copy your Google findings again in praise of the advances made under the Israeli military dictatorship, you will also find many advances for their time under the Third Reich. Smart butchers! Sorry you have wasted your time.
Best wishes
Ronnie
February 19th, 2012 at 10:35 am
For further details about how Israelis are treating those held against their will under this military dictatorship and how we can ramp up a boycott of many of Israel’s exports, see http://www.sadaka.ie/
February 19th, 2012 at 2:39 pm
Ron, this is the same old stuff that Nick Howard and other Sizer critics have already gone over again and again and we don’t have time to keep covering this ground!
Any article that only presents the Arab refugees (whatever the cause) and fails to mention the Jewish refugees from Arab countries, and one that links to Electronic Intafada and John Pilger ring alarm bells to me. I don’t trust them!
February 20th, 2012 at 6:01 pm
@ Chris
“Romans 9 tells us plainly…”
Not sure where you are coming from, but the Apostle Paul tells us…
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.” Romans 9:6-8. A.V.
And Peter tells us…
“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.” 1 Peter 2:9, 10. A.V.
What is absolutely CERTAIN is that the Old Covenant with ALL its promises is completed and fulfilled in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and that there is no salvation in any other name.
Whether a man be born an ethnic Hebrew [to whom the promises were made], or he be born a Gentile (outside of the first covenant), Christ alone is God’s only provision for both. The old is done away and all things are made new in and through Jesus Christ.
The Lord’s promises to Biblical Israel are in Jesus Christ the Messiah. The rejection of Jesus Christ as the Son of God is of the spirit of anti-christ. I John 2:21-23. A.V. Those who reject Christ reject the promises. Scripture is absolutely clear.
February 20th, 2012 at 6:52 pm
Isleander – if you read my earlier post you will see my comments on the Romans 9 verse, explaining it in the context of the whole book of Romans. To repeat it:
When Paul says “For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel” he simply means that not every physical Israelite is a spiritual Israelite.
The whole point he makes in Romans 9 is that the righteousness of God comes by faith and that just by being born an Israelite is not enough. A physical Israelite must also have the faith of Abraham. But he also later says that “All Israel will be saved” at the end of chapter 11 and that there is currently a temprorary, partial blindness upon many Israelites -those who rebelled. So nationally the promises of God still apply to them even though most are in unbelief.
And 1 Peter was written to Jewish believers (the dispersion) so of course he applies these titles to them!
“Christ alone is the provision for both” – nobody is disputing that.
February 20th, 2012 at 8:49 pm
@ Chris
Yes I’d agree with much of what you say.
The confusion regarding Israel is that people appear unable (or more likely – unwilling) to distinguish between the Israel of which the New Testament writers speak and the current national state of Israel. They are not the same.
The Israel of which the Apostles of Christ spoke (I refer to the physical seed), bears no relation nor resemblance to those who currently live in the modern state of Israel. The Apostles were speaking of all those, regardless of their location, who come to faith in Christ. “All Israel” refers to God’s Israel (Gal. 6:16*), not to the state of Israel.
Sorry Chis, but your hypotheses concerning the dispersion cannot be substantiated from Peter’s Epistle. Yes, his readers were indeed dispersed throughout Asia Minor, however, a better English translation is “scattered”, and I understand this to be the Christians scattered abroad. “Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.” Such were not a people before they came to Christ. However, they are NOW the people of God. Cf. the following…
“Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.” Ephesians 2:11-22. A.V.
*
“As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, even upon the Israel of God.” Galatians 6:12-16. A.V.
February 20th, 2012 at 10:39 pm
I was going to ask about the ‘partially’ blind – those who die tonight rejecting Christ, and where they end up (for the answer will have an impact on our evangelism). But it is always tempting to consider the final destiny of others, when perhaps it might be better to “work out [our] own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in [us], both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:12,13)
February 21st, 2012 at 6:31 pm
@Islander
Thanks for your reply.
1 Peter 2:10 is a quote from Hosea where God is talking about the restoration of unbelieving Israelites to faith. This is certainly true of Jewish believers who have recently come to trust in Jesus the Messiah.
Galatians 6 says “15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God”.
There are two different groups here: those who walk according to this rule (Gentile believers who do not need to be circumcised) The Israel of God (Jewish believers). The NIV translation “even” is incorrect here.
And 1 Peter was obviously written by Peter, the Apostle to the Jews, in contrast to Paul who was the Apostle to the Gentiles. On this basis, it is very likely that his epistle was written to Jewish disciples and not Gentiles. And the fact that he quotes naturally from the Old Testament and expects his readers to know these Scriptures (remember, new believers), points to a Jewish audience.
February 21st, 2012 at 10:43 pm
Ron, this is the same old stuff that Nick Howard and other Sizer critics have already gone over again and again and we don’t have time to keep covering this ground! – Chris.
I am sorry you dismiss the suffering and persecution of the Palestinians – Christian and Muslim – so lightly Chris. Paul says that God has made of one blood all nations of men and in the parable of the good Samaritan Jesus makes it clear who is our neighbour and what He expects of us.
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:33 am
@Ron “in the parable of the good Samaritan Jesus makes it clear who is our neighbour and what He expects of us” – Amen.
@ Isleander “What is absolutely CERTAIN is that the Old Covenant with ALL its promises is completed and fulfilled in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and that there is no salvation in any other name”. Amen
@Chris – “So nationally the promises of God still apply to them even though most are in unbelief” – could you explain what you mean by ‘nationally’? You kindly explained to me before that you understand Jew and Gentile to have different functions (?) in the body of Christ – could you explain what these are? Many thanks – Suzy
February 22nd, 2012 at 5:09 pm
@Suzy,
By nationally I meant Israel as a people group, not just as individuals. In other words, the Jewish nation, those who are Jewish in the flesh as a collective people.
It was not myself who used the term function, it just means that Jewish people are still Jewish and Gentiles are still Gentiles. Just like men are still men and women are still women.
In reference to your agreement with Ron’s comment about loving our neighbour, how does that apply to 2 people with a disagreement? If one party claims to have been wronged, is it fair or loving to just take his word and condemn the other person without any investigation into the facts or evidence? Sizer seems to think so, judging by his one sided polemics and his determination to demonise Israel at every opportunity and linking to anti-semitic websites that portray the Jew as Dracula.
February 22nd, 2012 at 5:24 pm
@ Chris – thanks for the explanation. A propos your last Q&A (“If one party consistently claims to have been wronged, is it fair or loving to just take his word and condemn the other person without any investigation into the facts or evidence? Sizer seems to think so, judging by his one sided polemics and his determination to demonise Israel at every opportunity”) – I’m continuing to read his material, and will be listening to him next month; he is a brother in Christ, for whom Jesus died, who has stuck his head above the parapet and has been vilified. God alone knows his heart; and that of Nick Howard; and mine too. With love in Christ – Suzy.
February 22nd, 2012 at 6:10 pm
Hi Suzy,
Thanks for your reply. He is a man for whom Christ died, I believe he died for us all. I have also read a lot of his material, seen his film and even tried talking with him via email. Reading his material is how I came to my conclusion about him, not taking someone else’s word for it.
There is always more than 1 side to a story – including the Arab/Israeli conflict and also between Nick Howard and Stephen Sizer. Their arguments should both be studied objectively for reliability and evidence – the truth never has anything to fear or hide.
May you be blessed.
Chris
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:27 pm
The difficulty about saying anything that does not support the objectives of Zionism is that the world becomes a very lonely place, so powerful is the Zionist movement particularly in the USA and it has huge financial clout. Stephen had difficulty getting a publisher which shows the extent to which Zionist influence has extended. Semitic is not a word that belongs solely to the Jews. It includes the Palestinians also: Of, relating to, or constituting a subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic language group that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, and Aramaic.
I was formerly a staunch supporter of the Israeli cause and indeed in 1973 as a young part-time soldier, I volunteered my services if required to defend Israel, to a Mr. Abraham in Belfast. Providentially my services were not required. My views changed due to the eye for an eye attitude of successive Israeli governments and its rise up the league as serial human rights abusers. Whether it is in the denial of residency to Palestinians, the illegal settlements or the detention of thousands of prisoners including children, without trial it is up there as a leading pariah state. Its defenders try and present criticism as “anti-semitism” when it is the Zionists themselves which are bringing a religion loved and known by all Christians into the gutter. I cannot understand how anyone who loves Jesus Christ and His teachings can defend what Israel is doing. God cannot be the patron of sin and the extra-judicial killings by Mossad, the disproportionate and indiscriminate violence by the overwhelmingly stronger IDF should call every Christian to rise up and ensure that Israel is brought before the bar of international law. Until she does so it should be the subject of sanctions such as that other pariah state Iran and Christians should stay away from the Holy Land which is being defiled by such hatred and violence. I pray that the Jews may see and embrace the One whose kingdom is not of this world and seek membership not of an earthly kingdom but of that kingdom which has no end – the one He has written in our hearts and which all can embrace regardless of colour, race or creed. Then we might see things improve and Christians return to the homes they have been driven from because of Israel’s hatred and violence and then we might see the Muslim world view Christ and His followers in a different light.
Racists like Benny Hinn and John Hagee hold their Nuremburg type rallies in support of the Zionist cause. They traduce Christianity: http://mysteryworshipers.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/how-rev-john-hagee-glen-beck-support-racism-and-ethnic-cleansing/ Google these men just to see the type of supporters behind the ethnic-cleaners in the Knesset. There is no confusion in the propaganda war, just “Christian” Zionists trying to excuse genocide.
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:33 pm
Israeli Professor:
‘We Could Destroy All European Capitals’
An Israeli professor and military historian hinted that Israel could avenge the holocaust by annihilating millions of Germans and other Europeans.
Speaking during an interview which was published in Jerusalem Friday, Professor Martin Van Crevel said Israel had the capability of hitting most European capitals with nuclear weapons.
“We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets of our air force.”
Creveld, a professor of military history at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, pointed out that “collective deportation” was Israel’s only meaningful strategy towards the Palestinian people.
“The Palestinians should all be deported. The people who strive for this (the Israeli government) are waiting only for the right man and the right time. Two years ago, only 7 or 8 per cent of Israelis were of the opinion that this would be the best solution, two months ago it was 33 per cent, and now, according to a Gallup poll, the figure is 44 percent.”
Creveld said he was sure that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon wanted to deport the Palestinians.
“I think it’s quite possible that he wants to do that. He wants to escalate the conflict. He knows that nothing else we do will succeed.”
Asked if he was worried about Israel becoming a rogue state if it carried out a genocidal deportation against Palestinians, Creveld quoted former Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Dayan who said “Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.”
Creveld argued that Israel wouldn’t care much about becoming a rogue state.
“Our armed forces are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that this will happen before Israel goes under.”
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:44 pm
@Ron – thank you.