Sometimes I find the Catholic Church macabre: The heart of St John Vianney to visit England
I must confess that at times I find the Catholic Church rather macabre. James notifies us that the heart of St John Vianney, the patron saint of parish priests, is to be brought to the Diocese of Shrewsbury next summer.
I guess the reasons I find this practice a little odd and macabre are two-fold.
Firstly, I’m not a cradle Catholic and have only come to the Catholic church in recent times, and so am simply not used to this sort of veneration. Secondly, I think it must be a general lack of understanding on my part.
It might of course help if I actually experienced something of this nature. I’m led to believe there’s a relic of a saint in every altar; in every Catholic Church.
Perhaps I will grow to understand and appreciate this aspect of Catholicism in time.
I hope so.
Tags: Christian Life, Church Life
November 7th, 2011 at 11:48 am
Yes, it’s hard to explain Stuart, we cradle Catholics do like bits of bodies and so on provided they have a saintly provenance.
I suppose the easiest way of expressing it is to state that it is like keeping a lock of hair from someone you love but I agree it’s a bit of a leap from hair to an organ. Mixed in there is also our belief in miracles capable of being wrought by Almighty God through the intercession of His saints.
Being able to venerate a relic brings us both closer spiritually to that person and also allows us to make a more personal request for intercession for our needs.
November 7th, 2011 at 12:21 pm
Thanks for that Richard, that makes perfect sense to me.
November 7th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
On a temporal note, there seem to be enough bones in existence of certain venerated persons to establish that they must have been millipedal. This, presumably, due to the brisk trade historically in religious relics. But it’s the thought that counts.
November 7th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
I don’t blame you for finding it difficult. Richard’s expressed it far more concisely than I could ever do, but still, if you’re interested I had a go at the subject here and here.
November 7th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
When we gather for worship, we’re already surrounded by plenty of living saints, so there’s plenty of saints already to be getting on with. I guess it connects us with the saints through history, but it does seem a peculiar way of doing it.
November 7th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
I emphasise strong with what you are saying, and went through the same feelings when I was exploring Catholicism myself. A while ago there was a special relics exhibition at the British Museum, and some of the exhibits were quite bizarre. A vial of Virgin Mary’s breast milk, amongst other things.
A little while back John Newman’s grave was dug up for relics, because the Pope was about to beatify him. The body had completely decomposed because Newman took care to be buried in a place where decomposition would be quick. Some suspect he did so precisely because of a fear of this eventuality (being put on the path to sainthood and having his body parts used!!).
For my sensibilities, body parts should be either cremated or buried. This fetish for preserving them and “venerating” them is very peculiar. When you think about it, it is reminiscent of pagan fetishism.
November 7th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
I think the church has clamped down a bit on this in modern times. It wasn’t that long ago that the holy foreskin was venerated, but this has (officially at any rate) been stopped. Another issue is the secondary relics – where something that has touched a relic becomes a relic. This seems very odd to me. Not logical in any sense of logic, unless you see intent as being a purpose (i.e. the intention with which something is done being what brings its significance rather than what the item actually is).
November 7th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
You’re thinking of tertiary relics, Gordon.
Primary relics are the remains of a saint — think of the bones of Elisha (2 Kings 13.20-21) or those of St Polycarp which the second-century Smyrnaean Christians gathered and venerated (Martyrdom of Polycarp, 18.2).
Secondary relics are objects that have been in contact with a saint, such as the handkerchiefs touched by St Paul (Acts 9.11-12), or which have been used by a saint, such as Elijah’s cloak (2 Kings 2.8, 13-14).
November 7th, 2011 at 4:15 pm
In Australia (and possibly other countries of the world) a whole industry has built up based on keeping records of one’s family. this involves, obviously, birth certificates, photographs and so on but it also includes hair locks, milk teeth and other personal mementoes.
It seems a fairly harmless way of of having a keepsake collection to remind you of family and times past.
We Catholics regard the saints as family and have affection for some whom particularly touch our hearts.
Some folk even keep the ashes of their loved ones in an urn on the mantlepiece, now that is gruesome.
That is it really; plus of course, we keep up the tradition that commenced in the Catacombs with the early Catholic martyrs.
I would disregard observations made by Scout and Gordon (sorry chaps).
November 7th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
@Richard
You have a point about family mementoes and urns on the mantelpiece. My grandmother’s ashes are in an urn sitting on my aunt’s mantelpiece, and the urn containing the ashes of my now departed but much loved cat is on display in my living room. Perhaps this is a psychological thing. For me, the remains of a dead person are “sanitised” (for want of a better word) when they are either cremated or buried. I think most people in the West would share that perception, including probably most Catholics. Or is the Catholic world experiencing a renewed enthusiasm for body part relics? I hear a lot of people turned out to see the relics of St. Therese when they toured the UK a while back.
November 7th, 2011 at 11:10 pm
It does seem weird. But weirdness about body parts is not an exclusively catholic prerogative. In that temple to Enlightenment reason, the Pantheon in Paris, there is a jar containing the heart of Leon Gambatta, to inspire the cause of secular rationalism.
Go figure.
November 8th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
I had a good dose of the ‘Catholic’ macabre in Costa Rica a few years back. It seems South and Central Americans are great into these type of things and I have a suspicion it has a great deal to do with peasants – whether they be South American or ancient European.
Personally I love life and have not yet reached the stage where I wish to worry about someone else’s umbilical cord, caul or left shoulder bone. Why don’t we just accept the possibility that God is quite able to hear our prayers without us having to go via some saint’s whatitsname in order for the great God Himself to hear us. Saints are great for memory of inspiring lives and deeds – Edith Stein and Maximilian Kolbe come to mind – and I would rather pause at that thought than move on to his or her innards for further sanctification.
But I am glad that the Blessed John Henry Newman had one over those who wished to bag his bones and pass them around. Good on him! I am left to wonder whether perhaps he did not quite approve of those who trade in bones and other innards . . .
November 8th, 2011 at 2:29 pm
Marc – have you never asked a friend to put in a good word for you or to assist you with some problem you might have or to help by interceding in some way?
Of course God hears our prayers but the added intercession of one of His own must surely count for a lot.
November 8th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
RC: Omniscience is omniscience, surely. I can’t imagine God saying to a lobbying saint “Ah yes, good point. I hadn’t thought of that”.
November 8th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
It’s one of the things that continues to totally and utterly perplex me. Here am I, a materialist, secular Humanist, and yet I have no desire for bodily material reminders of past humans in my life. Yes, I cherish the memories of people I have been close to who have died, but I don’t need to keep bits of their bodies close by.
Wheras there is a group of humans who believe in and worship an immaterial supernatural deity, and believe in the separateness of body and soul, and yet who still venerate physical remnants of dead bodies. To an outsider this is just so bizarre.
November 8th, 2011 at 4:06 pm
@Simian – yes, its very odd isn’t it?
@Richard – that argument suggests that the friend might have better luck than you at getting the request granted. That’s a bit like business networking or some such.
November 8th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
I think that most converts to the faith do find it rather strange. During my visit to the Treasures of Heaven, I left lipstick marks on the all the glass cases of the relics, and I’m a convert.
I suppose it depends on one’s understanding of the unity of body and soul, because the immortal soul has been temporarily separated from the body, this doesn’t mean that the body is then cast away, heaven forfend!!
The resurrection and the unification of our souls and glorified bodies is our glorious, firm and assured Hope of our Faith. Hence the care and love and reverence, we pay to the relics of our Saints. Well that’s my 2 cents worth and take on it.
November 8th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Gordon – any saint would be much better at obtaining God’s attention than me alone.
Jay – of course you are right in that interpretation but that is not how we believe that it works. A good saint pleading your cause can only add impetus to it.
A little like a child asking its mother to ask its father for something you want. That carries much more weight than a request just from you.
November 8th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
Richard Collins writes: “Marc – have you never asked a friend to put in a good word for you or to assist you with some problem you might have or to help by interceding in some way? Of course God hears our prayers but the added intercession of one of His own must surely count for a lot.”
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Yes I certainly have, however to be quite honest I fail to understand what someone’s bones has to do with asking God’s help. But as someone else has written, it seems the church is trying to put a cap on this kind of activity – ie the carrying around of relics.
I would hope that the better part of Catholicism surely does not understand that God needs anyone to intercede on our behalf – or that someone is more powerful than the intercession of the Holy Spirit – who intercedes on our behalf (Romans 8:26?).
No doubt it is far more about our own views and the comfort we gain where we have ‘friends putting in a good word’ on our behalf – and is not the ‘old boy network’ surely a fine example of the capers that us humans get up to – and by extension we would anthropomorphise God in our spiritual activities as well?
Yes, the saints are very necessary in my world – May our beloved Pope Benedict XVI canonise many more. I could not do without the saints as they inspire me with the record of their great works. But the idea that their intercession is at all necessary is just too close to the activity of calling on my powerful uncle who is a lot closer to my Dad than I am (and a lot more powerful than me!) and thinking God is just like that. Is this not once again too close to the practice which caused the great divide between Catholicism and Protestantism, where it was thought men and women could ‘buy off’ God and get into heaven that way? God will, in my view, have no truck with such antics.
November 9th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
Marc – I am sure it is not easy to comprehend but let me try and explain further. This began in the Catacombs and at the time of the early martyrs. Fragments of clothing, their possessions and even their body parts took on a significance born out of a desire to stay close to something (someone) holy.
Catholics believe fervently that the intercession of a saint to the Almighty is indeed helpful; the saint plays the role of advocate. Just as Jesus Christ was influenced by His mother on earth (Marriage Feast at Cana) so, a plea by His mother in Heaven or one of His saints on our behalf will be listened to.
We light candles, we pray novenas, we say the Rosary…to God first and foremost but also to others who will advocate on our behalf.
When we ask a priest to say a Mass for our dead or for a special intention, we also give a stipend, a small sum of cash. We are not ‘buying off God’ we are making a charitable gift to help support our pastors. A necessary part of our faith.
The priest celebrates the Mass on our behalf, in fact, every time a priest says the Mass he is acting as intermediary between us and Christ.
The selling of indulgences is a bit of a red herring in this context.
The fact is that we do have intermediary actions taking place the whole time. The reverence for sacred relics is just another strand.