Can Psychopaths become Christians?
This is a question that’s been bugging me for some time now. So much so that I’ve toyed with asking it on this blog but felt unsure. As a result, I posted it on a Christian forum and have a received some thoughtful responses.
As I now feel emboldened I’d like to ask the same question of you here, namely:
If psychopaths genuinely appear to be devoid of compassion, empathy, shame, guilt, remorse, conscience and so on, is it possible that they may become Christians, given that this path begins with repentance?
When I say Christian, I don’t mean in name or appearance only, but am specifically referring to the notion of being ‘saved’.
I know it’s a strange question, but I have a strange mind, and would love to know your thoughts.
July 19th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
No, but in the Anglican Church of Canada, they can become bishops.
July 19th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
Really interesting question and its one I have thought about too. I think for me it challenges me to think about what makes us a Christian or to be saved. For me my salvation depends on God, not on myself. It is what God did on the cross and continues to do in me now that makes me saved. I cannot save myself. I believe in what God did. I don”t have to feel it. I have to believe it initially as an intellectual exercise. I can choose to turn around and go in the opposite direction without feeling repentance. I think the feelings come later. A part of me worries that we can put so much emphasis on what we do to receive God’s salvation that it ends up becoming a salvation by works – we only get saved if we do certain things.
I also think back to the woman caught in adultery. Jesus forgave her before he told her to ‘Go and sin no more’. She didn’t ask to be forgiven. Jesus showed her immense love and forgiveness and then said ‘Go and sin no more’. its totally in Jesus character to love and forgive. Once we see that love and compassion intellectually maybe it will start to warm even the coldest heart.
I recently had a major crisis of faith. I stopped believing in God altogether (and I was working as a parish evangelist so this was not exactly helpful!!). When I returned to faith I didn’t feel the faith at all. I made a step of faith totally and utterly as an act of my will. It was only once I had done so that all the peace etc started to return. Even psychopaths can choose to do something as an act of free will.
I’ve rambled enough.
God bless you
Lynda
July 19th, 2011 at 10:08 pm
David!!
@Lynda, that wasn’t rambling at all. Really insightful, thank you.
July 19th, 2011 at 10:08 pm
Well it worked for me, lol. No that’s a joke, as I was accused of being psychotic by a numbskull simply because I have AS, and he was trying to stop people listening to me.
It’s a strange question really, but God calls whom He will, and if someone recognises the truth and decides to follow it then personal feelings/emotions don’t really have to come into it. I am a believer because of science, reason, logic, facts. It was heavily backed up by empirical data and a personal meeting. This had little to do with how I feel and relate to other people, so yes, I believe psychopaths can become Christians.
July 19th, 2011 at 10:09 pm
David’s is funny, lol!
July 20th, 2011 at 8:11 am
Can they be saved? Yes — for God will meet with whoever truly seeks him. We presume too quickly that the problems caused by physical illness — and mental illness is a defect of this world, not of eternity — have some impact on the ability of a soul to turn to Christ. I think God finds ways past that.
Which is not to say that we should pretend that such a believer is not a psychopath, any more than if he had one leg.
July 20th, 2011 at 9:01 am
[...] Stuart asks an interesting question: Can Psychopaths Become Christians? [...]
July 20th, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Maybe the question and bigger test of faith is that other christians accept the possibility of a psychopath being saved.
This is too big a question for a christian novice and has made my mind race to the point of a headache.
July 21st, 2011 at 9:24 pm
Empathy is such an important part of what makes us human that I’m not sure if psychopaths are even ‘human’ in the sense that non-psychopaths are. I’ve been wrestling with the problem of psychopathy for a long time, having one in my immediate family. For me, the question of whether or not psychopaths can be Christians is superfluous, because of the questionable nature of the psychopath’s very humanity.
Nevertheless, we mustn’t judge and condemn those whom we believe to be psychopathic. We *do* need to be very, very cautious when dealing with them and set appropriate boundaries. God alone knows the contents of their (and our) hearts and minds.
There’s always a tension between loving our neighbors as ourselves and not allowing ourselves to be taken advantage of. This tension is only amplified when dealing with psychopaths.
July 22nd, 2011 at 1:49 pm
Crikey! Why limit this to psychopaths? Surely by your logic Stuart, no human who was mentally impaired, such that they were incapable of becoming truly repentant, could be saved. That’s a whole lot of human beings, who are otherwise ‘good’ people. Surely that can’t be right?
July 22nd, 2011 at 3:39 pm
@Simian, I simply asked the question, which shows my openness to accepting that psychopaths can be saved. I wouldn’t have the asked the question if I believed otherwise, I would have simply popped up a post arguing that they could not.
In fact, this was the overwhelming response, that yes indeed, psychopaths can be saved, and the argument went very much along simialr lines to your own.
July 22nd, 2011 at 5:21 pm
@ Webmaster- I should have read the link you so helpfully provided! Apologies. It’s still a thought provoking question though. Thanks.
July 22nd, 2011 at 5:58 pm
Oh thanks Simian. I genuinly found it interesting and I bet there are some out there that would hold the view that they can’t be saved!
None have come forward though…
July 24th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
They can pretend to be anything they want to if, as long as they can convince other people to believe in whatever the latest thing they are claiming to be. Are there tests to prove you’re Christian? Some sort of barometer to measure your ‘goodness’? No – it’s just whether you can convince others that you are, & not get caught doing anything wrong.
Can Psychopaths ever have a conscience, empathy, compassion, remorse – NO – the frontal lobe of their brains are deformed & can’t function the same as people who can … there is no cure. So until we can perform brain transplants – Psychopaths are devoid of ‘goodness’.
Don’t believe me? More fool you – God help you if you have to learn the hard way.
July 24th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
This has proven to be a strikingly prescient question!
July 24th, 2011 at 7:08 pm
@Bonobo – Oh gosh I see what you mean!
July 24th, 2011 at 8:05 pm
Lily I do see what you mean but I go back to what I said, that salvation depends on God not on me. Just because I am a Christian doesn’ t mean I always do what I should or think what I should. If I understand Romans 7 right St Paul had the same problem. My ‘goodness’ doesn’t come from me. It comes from God because of the cross of Christ. I have His righteousness – given me as a gift of grace. Should a psychopath be any different? If they can’t help it even more reason for them to be given salvation when they ask for it by faith.
If I know someone is a psychopath I would of course be very wary of them, I would not believe everything they say etc etc. But I can’t look at someone’s behaviour and say this person is a Christian and this one is not. Look at King David – adultery and murder to his name but still a man after God’s own heart.
I think we can be naive about all people who say they are Christians. Even people who are not psychopaths can let us down and hurt us. The thing is we are all sinners. Jesus/God is the only one we can really trust. So often we have higher expectations of someone who is a Christian and get really hurt when they act like the sinful human they are.
Personally I think a Christian is someone who has accepted by faith the gift of grace, salvation. I don’t think we can define Christians by their behaviour.
July 24th, 2011 at 10:24 pm
Lynda,
The very nature of a Psychopath means that he/she would never ask for salvation, and mean it. They don’t care about things like that, they don’t have a conscience, they couldn’t conceive what salvation is. They are omnipotent, their faith is in themselves alone.
It’s not an easy thing to comprehend that a human can be devoid of the emotions that make us humane. If you know someone who is a psychopath; don’t just be wary – run for your life.
July 25th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
Lily,
I’m not sure it’s quite that black and white. There are degrees of Psychopathy, and to some extent this probably depends on the exact physical condition and the extent of damage.
Moreover, many people classified as psychopaths can, and do, lead relatively normal lives, and learn what it is to understand how others feel, even if they do not feel it themselves.
And the condition does not always lead to criminality or violence, though manipulation seems to be an enduring theme. I speak from experience with such people.
So please let’s not automatically demonise people who are psychopaths. I agee that one has to be very careful, and behave towards them in a modified way, but they can learn to modify their behaviour. Indeed, some of our most eminent captains of industry would most likely score very highly on the Hare psychopathy test, and thus be classified as psychopaths.
July 27th, 2011 at 1:08 am
Simian
You are describing people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder more than Sociopaths (Psychopaths). The most eminent leaders of many countries through out the years would most likely score very highly on the Hare psychopathy test too, and thus be classified as Psychopaths. Their crimes & violence are deemed as necessary. If they are really smart, heroic even. The cleverest Sociopaths are just as immoral & violent as their less brighter counterparts – they simply disguise it more successfully.
You can not understand emotions, if you do not possess the capacity to have them. It is impossible. It’s like saying a man without eyes could know what the colour green was.
“but they can learn to modify their behaviour” – Dr. Hare himself states it is impossible for Sociopaths to ever learn from mistakes or consequences. Hence they can never be rehabilitated.
I speak from experience too. I’m not demonising them, I would indeed class them as nothing less than utterly demonic & treat them accordingly.
July 27th, 2011 at 8:36 am
Lily,
I take your point, and I agree with most of what you write. But I’m not willing to write off these people completely as beyond help; beyond all hope of surviving within society. I think we still do not fully understand the conditions thus described, and I stand by my assertion that this is not black and white. there are degrees of psychopathy.
I’ve just read an interesting book on the topic: ‘Zero Degrees of Empathy’ by Simon Baron-Cohen. It seems that some of the people afflicted by this condition are currently beyond any help that allows them to live within ‘normal’ society. But it seems that others do manage to make it through life without completely destroying the lives of others, or ending up in jail or mental institutions. They may not be very nice people, but not everythng they do is ‘bad’ or ‘evil’.
But maybe I have misunderstood. It’s something I am currently studying, so I am very open to alternative viewpoints.
July 27th, 2011 at 10:57 am
Simian,
I think you sound like it’s sinking in with you how these people are. Thankfully! It’s almost impossible to relate to them because we naturally have empathy & a conscience. When people exclaim “How could he do that?!” – my reply is, “Why wouldn’t he”? The only thing that stops most people from doing things is empathy, conscience or fear of consequence. None of these apply to a Sociopath. Most people cannot comprehend that, so they assume the person culpable of the atrocity must be mad. out of their mind, psychotic, Schizophrenic, a maniac so on, so forth. Not all all, they simply didn’t care.
I agree that depending on how a Sociopaths life pans out will determine how ‘bad’ or evil they are, or indeed able to live in society will be.
The worrying thing for me is that for the main, people have no idea are suffering Psychosis will almost always turn to religion or spirituality, & it can be a great comfort and help for them to become well. Psychopaths would only pretend to turn to religion or spirituality because they have an ulterior motive. I don’t remember who wrote this, it’s one of twenty ‘red flags’ to spot Narcissists/Sociopaths, & so right.
“THE SAINTLY NARCISSIST/SOCIOPATH proclaims high moral standing. Accuses others of immorality. “Hang ‘em high” he says about the murderer on the 6:00 news. This hypocrite lies, cheats, schemes, corrupts, abuses, deceives, controls, manipulates and torments while portraying himself of high morals.
Defense Strategy: Learn the red flags of behaviour. Be suspicious of people claiming high morals. Can be spotted at a church near you”.
I agree that we’ve along way to go to fully understand them. I read an extremely interesting article about a scientist that created a pharmaceutical drug to be used during Psychotherapy, it worked by increasing people’s (criminals) empathy so they could feel how their victims felt. I often wondered would it have made any difference to Sociopaths in general as a long term preventative medicine. Sadly we will never know as the American Government put a stop to it, I suggest reading the article if you can find it, very thought provoking. The ability to manufacture the drug leaked into the underground anyway, we now know it as the illegal drug, Ecstasy.
Be careful in your line of work Simian please, even Hare admits after 25 years Sociopaths can manipulate him.
I would never, ever, let a Sociopath near children, ie church. Remember, they have no conscience. Consider children’s safety before saving souls, that don’t exist.
July 27th, 2011 at 11:22 am
This is all very interesting to me. I find it hard that someone could be born with a condition that prohibits them from finding God – in a real, personal way. It conflicts with my view of God as someone who can always save everyone. In fact it is situations like this which make me lean more towards the universalistic view point of salvation.
But on the other hand I totally get what you are saying about such people. I have one person I am in contact with on a work level (and at present have no choice but to relate to them unless I leave the job – which I will do as soon as circumstances allow), who I am sure has some kind of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. But I am interested in how you can tell (if indeed you can) when someone is more than a Narcissist and is a psychopath or sociopath.
Learning how to deal with this person in the short term would be great. I’ve worked out that everything is about him. He will be very charming etc, but it is all I am sure to get people to do what he wants. He can also show rage about things. So far it is not directed at me. I have managed to get along side him, and he thinks we get on well. I tend to find a way to put everything I say and do in such a way that is is something that would benefit him.
I find especially interesting your comment Lily “Consider children’s safety before saving souls, that don’t exist”. The idea that some people can be born without souls as such in intriguing. A lot of food for thought.
July 27th, 2011 at 11:49 am
This is a tricky one, not made easier by the question of when someone becomes a psychopath. Are they born or made? If born, I’ve no doubt they can ontologically or sacramentally speaking become Christians, simply by being baptised.
(I went to a seminar in Manchester once upon a time by Fergus Millar, one of Britain’s grand old men of ancient history, who insisted that the earliest uses of the term Christian was as a household term, such that it referred to people who were family members of slaves. The point being, from a Christian point of view, that being a Christian in the strictest sense has very little to do with us: God adopts us as his own.)
That aside, though, this is a very good point. I’d suspect that it’s surely possible for a psychopath to believe in God and accept what Jesus did and taught, albeit in an abstract sense? Could this have any bearing on this?
On the other hand, faith demands repentance and humility, and the application of faith demands compassion and so forth; if psychopaths are incapable of this, then they can’t really become Christians in a sense that many people would use the term. However, if this insuperable shortcoming truly isn’t their fault, this surely wouldn’t preclude the possibility of Christ saving them — we’d be talking of invincible ignorance, in effect.
August 1st, 2011 at 7:49 am
Lynda:
“Learning how to deal with this person in the short term would be great. I’ve worked out that everything is about him. He will be very charming etc, but it is all I am sure to get people to do what he wants. He can also show rage about things”.
The best quote I ever heard was ‘Understand the nature of the beast’ – & depending on the situation you’re in, ‘Fake it ’til you make it’.
There are lots of literature about to thoroughly educate yourself how to minimise being manipulated or abused by Narcissists. Personally, I think the easiest part about dealing with Ns is theoretically understanding them. Putting theory into practice when you’re being manipulated/bullied/emotionally blackmailed etc is a different story though. For example, suicide threats are a favourite with them if a partner tries to break free. To fight a ‘normal’ person’s reaction in the situation is near impossible.
Once you understand Narcissists, they are quite easy to work around; at arms length. Not pleasant, but fairly easy, depending on the level of Psychopathy they also have.
They are weak cowardly people with false egos they crave to have massaged. The irony with them is they are so transparent once understood, the manipulators are easy to manipulate! I’d strongly recommend the books ‘Without conscience’ by Robert Hare. (Psychopaths) Also, ‘Snakes in suits’ by Paul Babiak may be of particular use for you in your situation.
“But I am interested in how you can tell (if indeed you can) when someone is more than a Narcissist and is a psychopath or sociopath”.
Indeed. I think it was Hare that said all Psychopaths are Narcissists, but not all Narcissists are Psychopaths. As in Autism, it’s like a spectrum and difficult to pinpoint Narcissistic Personality Disorder (for arguments sake, lets say Jeremy Kyle?) to Narcissistic with Psychopathic traits (Rupert Murdoch?) to Psychopath with strong Narcissistic traits (Hitler?) to ‘full blown’ Psychopath, (Ian Brady, Ted Bundy, Joseph Fritzl)
(I’ve tried to use examples of Psychopathic people who got away with appearing ‘sane’ for a long time in society, whether their actions would be deemed it or not).
A gut reaction will tell you a Narcissist is ‘creepy’, smarmy, false, glib, egocentrical & a bragger, exaggerating the truth or outright lying. They are like a mosquito. Annoying, relentless & parasitical. Still, potentially dangerous.
A Psychopath has more of an ‘presence’ – it can be attractive, yet ominous at the same time. They can appear very self assured, despite being quiet and reserved. They are pathological liars, and can pass lie detector tests. Some people with fine tuned intuition I’ll call it, can sense the evil/danger they exude. Quite often extraordinarily confident and charming. They are like a wolf. Lone predators, unpredictable & lethal.
Thirsty: “I’d suspect that it’s surely possible for a psychopath to believe in God and accept what Jesus did and taught, albeit in an abstract sense”?
I agree. I’ve only ever known one person who I would class as Narcissist/Psychopath who claimed to be devout Christian, read the scriptures daily, knew the bible inside out etc. To be frank, I thought him having a ‘manual on suggestions how to behave in society’ had definitely served him well some what. Nevertheless, he is still a nasty piece of work and I wouldn’t like to guess what he was capable of. I’ve personally see him roaring drunk, punch a woman full force in the face … then the next day claim he remembered nothing, & amble on down to church & play the ‘good Christian’, revered very highly as a family man that will do anyone a favour. Like all of his kind are the masters of perfect façades when they are in the spotlight. (And sober)
I do believe that he ‘believes’ in God etc, – but it still doesn’t make him have a conscience or emotions about people in a normal way. Certainly devoid of repentance humility, compassion. He merely ‘owns’ his family, the same as his car or house. Territorial & protecting, but because that’s in his own best interest, not because he cares about them.
I wouldn’t say it’s a Narcissists or Psychopaths own fault they way they are. Who would choose a like devoid of love or empathy? They can be either born that way, or made.
I guess if you believe Christ can save the devil himself, then Christ could save Narcissists & Psychopaths too. However, it still goes back to the same fact. They don’t care, they don’t want to be saved. They know no different, it is us that are flawed & weakened by love, empathy, compassion, not them, in their eyes. They’ll tell you they want to be saved, probably means they’ve their eye on the collection plate, someone’s wife, or being an ‘elder’ – or in a trusted position around children.
August 1st, 2011 at 8:09 am
Thanks Lily, that is helpful. My gut is telling me is a Narcissist but not much more. Fortunately we share an interest, painting. So we often talk about that. Its been very useful. I genuinely admire his painting skill. Also I am in normal circumstances good with people, so have skills i can use. I am managing to keep it on a good level by making every thing I have to do appear to be to his advantage. As he will not be leaving the situation (I manage a block of apartments in which he is a resident) and I am the employee, I will at some stage leave, and will do so immediately if he turns on me.
Interesting learning experience it is turning out to be! Thank again
August 1st, 2011 at 8:59 am
You’re welcome Lynda. Glad my insight can give people some wisdom. forewarned is forearmed. You may not be in any danger at all, in a physical sense – my father had NPD, wouldn’t harm a fly – never even saw him lose his temper (there are cerebral & somatic NPDs, he was cerebral & probably likely the person you speak of is too. Just be wary what you trust them with, especially your feelings!
Quote:
Narcissists are either “Cerebral” (derive their narcissistic supply from their intelligence or academic achievements) – or “Somatic” (derive their narcissistic supply from their physique, exercise, physical or sexual prowess and “conquests”).
As I rule of thumb, I’ve found the Narcissists with Psychopathic traits to be Somatic, & more dangerous in a physical sense.
October 13th, 2011 at 5:44 pm
Lily is right on the money! There is absolutely no cure for a psychopath. We can forgive them by knowing neuroscience has now proven this disorder originates with the malfunctioning of neurons in the brain. Lily has done massive research on psychopaths and is obvious. She is right. If you had no worry, fear, feelings, or conscience, what would be stopping you from doing evil? I searched for months looking for hope or even 1 person who was even partially cured from being a psychopath or transforming into Christianity and found absolutely nothing. It is very interesting and I often wonder why God would allow people to actually be born this way, without a chance. They definitely have Satan’s influence on them and I’ve often wonder if they actually aren’t the devil themselves. It’s all so very strange how not 1 person has ever been cured from psychopathy. From a Christian’s point of view, there comes a point when a person has done so much evil in the world choosing the path of darkness, that God isn’t willing to help them anymore. Who knows? I have no confirmed answers…only guesses.