Is Jesus a rebel, controller, manipulator?
I’m involved in a thought provoking conversation over on the Premier Forum. I know it’s not like me to foray into these areas on this blog, but just for once, especially as I’m listening to music that makes me somewhat wistful.
The question posed in the opening post revolves around the use of the terms: “rebel, controller, manipulator”, for Jesus.
The author is not happy with this and posits:
I can see Him as revolutionary, but not a rebel, not rebellious. Perhaps it is because I see rebellion as a sin.
I think semantically this is correct, but feel the author is viewing these terms as pejorative, which if applied to man is accurate, but not for God.
One commenter (Iggy) commented:
I think to describe our Lord as a rebel or as rebelling against the world (or the Pharisees) is to look through the wrong end of the looking glass. It is mankind that is is frequently in rebellion against God, not vice versa.
To which I responded:
Yes agreed. This is of course to view through the theological grist – which is accurate – however, from an unregenerate human perspective, Jesus was a rebel in informing us that God is topsy turvey to the world, or of course – more accurately – visa versa.
I note however, he paid his dues to the authorities at every turn.
In summary, I’m happy for the term “rebel” to be applied to Jesus.
But what about the terms: “Controller” or “Manipulator“?
Again, I’d posit these terms are viewed in the main pejoratively, and when applied to man this is essentially accurate.
But when applied to God these terms are not at all pejorative.
I’m not going to offer a sophisticated Biblical exegesis, as I’m simply not qualified, but will attest to experience. I believe that God is both “controller” and “manipulator“, and I’m thankful that he is.
As an avowed social scientist and atheist, I would never have come to, and accepted, Jesus on my own intellectual steam, and do attest to a God that broke through into my life, without acquiescence to me.
I can also attest to a God, who has manipulated people, circumstances, and the world around me, to save my life and soul, and I’m eternally grateful he did.
Does this make him egotistical? Certainly not, and frankly if anyone has a right to be the same, then it is God.
Tags: Christian Life
February 17th, 2011 at 12:03 am
I think you need to define your terms more precisely. ‘Controlling’ and ‘manipulative’ are the kind of words used about people who murder their exes in a jealous rage. You – formally correctly, I think – separate means and motivation. You ascribe only good motives to God; therefore manipulation and control are ok. But if you are making that distinction then isn’t the original question rendered meaningless? The reason it was asked was that Phoebe didn’t like describing Jesus in the same terms the news uses to describe psychotically jealous killers.
Not sure I’m expressing myself clearly but have re-drafted this too many times already. Let me know…
February 17th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
Interesting conversation! Nice music too. I’m not a scholar either but too many times I’ve realized our words don’t really capture all the things that God is. People in the early Church argued for hundreds and hundred of years over the exactly right words, non-heretical words, to describe the Holy Trinity. In the Athanasian Creed they used words like incomprehensible, almighty, uncreated and eternal.
Here’s some more music you might like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2KgU1E6D1U
I don’t know if that’s what you were looking for but I agree with what you said about manipulation and control. Yes, thank God! If I hadn’t been knocked off my feet a few times I would have continued running a race into my own brick wall.
That was a good point, Simian, about good motives. That does make the difference.
February 18th, 2011 at 12:59 am
@Stacy – Simon, not Simian. I knew this nick would cause trouble.
I missed a trick in my last post. Good intentions are not enough – the road to hell is paved with them. You also need the omniscience ascribed to God in order to manipulate and reliably get away with it. There are too many factors beyond your control for a human to successfully manipulate others without being found out and resented.
Incidentally, I am not sure that it is possible to arrange matters to everyone’s spiritual benefit. Some situations are zero-sum – for me to win you must lose, and vice-versa.
February 18th, 2011 at 8:16 am
Stacy – That was Simon’s comment, not mine.
One of my grandfathers was a senior cleric in the Church of England, and he had very strong views about the nature of Jesus. He was outraged by the then common description of “Gentle Jesus, meek and mild”. His view was that Jesus was anything but that. He would have had to have been incredibly charismatic and mentally tough to be able to bend people to his will by sheer force of character. All the attributes you mention could be said of Jesus, but as Simon says, we really have to be very clear how we define these terms and in what context we use them.
None of us is entirely logical in the way we use words, and the meanings we imply – nowhere more so, it seems to me, than when discussing religious belief.