Street preacher Paul Shaw back in Colchester court again charged with using threatening words or behaviour towards gays
Paul Shaw is back in court again, this time charged in relation to his election campaign in which he distributed leaflets that stated homosexual acts should be made illegal.
I literally can’t summon the will to comment on this and so I’m going to hand over to two very contrasting views for you to make up your own mind.
The first comes from Christian blogger and Patristic scholar Roger Pearse:
The second comes from the prominent atheist blog the FreeThinker:
Tags: Law Moral Ethical
August 28th, 2010 at 11:35 am
I feel quite strongly that a gays should not be allowed special treatment under the law.
Perhaps in the cause of equal treatment there could be a couple of dozen seats in the Upper House reserved for gays, automatic charitable status for gay clubs a minimum legal age of eighteen years for participation in religious activities and grooming children for religious purposes made a criminal offence?
August 28th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
Funny how demands for “equality”, “fairness” (all of them presuming silently that the gay agenda is a given, when no-one was asked to vote on this) turn into dragging people into court.
In general, the powerless need protecting from the powerful. We have too many over-powerful lobbies in our society, all of them eager to silence any criticism of themselves. This is morally wrong, whoever they are.
We can tell fairly easily who the powerless is, and who the powerful are, by who is passing laws to allow who to be denounced to the police; who is being dragged into court, who may be abused and who may be discussed only with great caution if at all.
August 28th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
There is 100 times more hatred in what the self-styled ‘freethinker’ says than in anything Paul Shaw came out with. Free thinking? I don’t think so.
August 28th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
I thought so.
I told him I wouldn’t denounce him under the “religious hate” laws (another evil that should be abolished). That reminder that he is just as vulnerable ought to make him think before crowing as people he disagrees with are dragged off by the police.
In truth it’s just an accident that it is gays who have been given the power to persecute; it could be anyone, once the establishment has the right to award or withdraw such powers to and from favoured groups. (Notice how criticising Jews is now becoming “allowed” when it used to be totally verboten? The favour of the mighty is fickle)
But in a free country you can say what you like, on political and religious issues, short of inciting violence. So it should be.
August 29th, 2010 at 8:32 am
I am a Romany Gypsy and as you know my people get called all kinds of stereotypical names and nothing happens but this man is telling people what the Bible says regarding homosexuality and he gets dragged into court its an absolute disgrace!!!!
Thae way things are going it will be against the law to give a gay person a parking ticket or take there money when thay are paying at a till!
They ask for equal rights…………….more like one rule for them
And i am sick of the word “homophobic” it is getting really boring now.
I have nothing against ANYONE but the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin as is lieing,thiefing,coveting ect
So whever you are gay or not we all need Gods forgivness and the most loving thing you can do for someone is to tell them the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
God bless
August 29th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Paul Shaw, is a poster boy for atheism, we need more like him to help our cause. These idiots do more for atheism and freethinking than Denit, Harris, Hitchings and Dawkins put together. A constitutional society should uphold freedom of speech and should not concern itself with its citizens’ feelings. If it sought to protect sensibilities, there would be no limit to the abuse of freedom that the principle would justify. The principle of free speech limited only by the direct call for violence and/or racism. Remember It’s not just the right of the person who speaks to be heard, it is the right of everyone to listen, and to hear. Because we would all still benefit from his perhaps outrageous or appalling view
August 29th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
@ iam terry-fc.
I would argue that Psaul Shaw is a much more potent totem for the religious right, because he fits in so well with the persecution narrative, upon which religion so often feeds. Having an opposition heightens the sense of doing something noble, and binds those who share their view closer together.
I guess I sound cynical, but it reflects my experience.
@ cnocspeaireag and Roger Pearce
cnocspeaireag Said: “I feel quite strongly that a gays should not be allowed special treatment under the law.”
On this we totally agree, but that is whole point! Gays are not asking for special treatment. In fact all they are asking for is to be treated the same as any other human, and not to have to suffer abuse and being ostracised for their sexuality.
If you mistakenly think people consciously choose to be homosexual then I can sort of see why you would start from where you do, but the fact is that they do not make a choice. That is how they are.
Even for you to say “fair enugh, but becasue it is against God’s will they must abstain from consumating their relaionships, is no better.
I guess you are free to think whatever religiously inspired mumbo jumbo you like, but do not be surprised to find significant opposition to your views from an increasingly enlightened and educated society at large.
August 30th, 2010 at 12:03 am
I am not suprised to find opposition to what the Bible teaches for Jesus said”just as in the days of Noah,so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man”
The world is getting more and more wicked and people are calling what is good evil and what is evil good!
People want to live there own way and live out there desires and indulge in there sinful pleasures and no matter who you are,if you are into something that pleases you,you will try to justify it no matter if it is good or evil!
You can call religous mumbo jumbo if you like,but sadly it is Gods word and He is boss not you!
I am not “homophobic” as many claim.I tell liars and thieves about Jesus so does that make me a thiefaphobic or a liarphobic?
You people need to get in the real world and realize that Jesus is all loving and the fact that He came to earth and died on the cross for the sins of the world proves that!!
Jesus died for the WORLD and that includes homosexuals,liars,thieves,blasphemers,adulterers,murderers and ALL other sins.
In one way or another we have all done one of those things and for that reason we are guilty of breaking Gods law s and bearing in mind you will one day breath your last and “it is permitted for a man once to die and after face the judgement”
So will you accept Jesus’ gift???????
August 30th, 2010 at 10:06 am
I think the introduction of religion vs atheism is a red herring. Let’s not.
Likewise the question of whether our society should grant the demands of gays that homosexuality should be a norm in our society is not the key issue (although their attempt to achieve this by back-stairs influence and legislation is the reason for the problem).
We should all be able to accept that one ground being able to denounce another to the police for what they say about politics or religion is wrong. That’s the issue.
August 30th, 2010 at 11:26 am
Paul Shaw wants homosexuality to be treated as an illegal act. This is not the standpoint of most Christians. Christians believe it is a sin, unnatural and wrong, but they respect the freedom of others to do what they want to do as long as they don’t infringe on one’s own freedom.
Christians should not get distracted by unreasonable demands such as the one put forward by Shaw – they should focus on resisting the encroachment of the state on the Christian’s right to think what he wants, and to teach others what he thinks is the Truth as long as they don’t incite violence, which I think is the case with most Christians.
I think Christians need to develop a sort of clear political philosophy on this matter (and not allow their cause to be hijacked by the far right or compromised by liberals) so that the confusion stops, and the younger generation of Christians know where we/they stand.
August 30th, 2010 at 11:42 am
Roger,
I agree this is not about religion vs atheism, but Idont think that’s the point we were making. Terry was bemoaning the fact that Shaw’s actions were grist to the atheists’ mill, and I was disagreeing.
I also agree that people should not be prosecuted just for expressing their opinions. But you’ll note the words used in the report are “threatening words or behaviour”. Actual threats against people who’se lawful activites one does not like are unacceptable in a civilised society.
September 25th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
Apparently the CPS dropped the case on Thursday for lack of evidence (rather than because of the civil liberties issues, unfortunately). Good news all the same. The story is here.
http://christianquoter.blogspot.com/2010/09/not-enough-evidence-to-convict.html
September 25th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
Jim, perhaps you would like to read beyond the first line of my post. Should I add an emoticon for irony next time ?
September 25th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
@ cnoc…etc.
Apologies. I recognised the irony when I first read your post, but somehow forgot when I came back to comment.
Actually, wouldn’t it be great to have an emoticon for irony – or is there already one?
September 26th, 2010 at 9:51 am
Cheers, Jim. I’m sure I’ve seen one somewhere, but can’t find where I’ve left it now. Sign of getting old, I suppose.
September 26th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
It’s hard to know whether an election leaflet could be interpreted as threatening or inciting violence without seeing the whole thing. I have seen quotes on various sites, but it’s still not clear.
It appears part of what Mr Shaw said was: “The concept of homophobia is nonsense and a play on words; it is not and has never been a phobia! A phobia is an un-natural fear; whereas a rejection of perverse behaviour; is a righteous godly fear; that fears to do wrong because it knows that there are consequences and punishment otherwise!”
This isn’t an incitement to violence, but it’s very ignorant. If he doesn’t believe in homophobia perhaps the police could show him photos of some of its victims.
We’ve seen homophobic posts here on this blog. Ugly, but no bones are broken. I’m with the saintly Peter Tatchell, who commented:
“I urge the police and prosecuting authorities to concentrate on tackling serious homophobic hate crimes, instead of wasting public money on petty, distasteful homophobic ranters.”
“The price of freedom of speech is that we sometimes have to put up with opinions that are objectionable and offensive. Just as people should have the right to criticise religion, people of faith should have the right to criticise homosexuality. Only incitements to violence should be illegal.”
October 1st, 2010 at 10:21 am
I am a believer in Jesus Christ and believe all that the Bible says. However I believe Paul Shaw’s campaign and statements are ignorant and damaging. Whilst the Bible calls homosexual behaviour a sin against God, I do not think gays should be “locked up” or punished. I certainly dislike the way he concentrates on gays and – to my knowledge – says nothing about adultery or any other sin in the Bible. I am ashamed of the way the Christian community seems to target gays for special condemnation whilst tolerating other groups of sinners. I also dislike homophobia, as gays and lesbians are human beings, created in God’s image, like everyone else. The Lord Jesus Christ is very gracious with all people, he was only harsh with religious hypocrits.
October 1st, 2010 at 10:37 am
“I also agree that people should not be prosecuted just for expressing their opinions. But you’ll note the words used in the report are “threatening words or behaviour”. Actual threats against people who’se lawful activites one does not like are unacceptable in a civilised society.”
I agree absolutely.