The Board of Deputies of British Jews respond to Methodist Conference paper entitled; Justice for Palestine and Israel
For background reading see here and here.
The below link will take you to a PDF file which is the official response from The Board of Deputies to an upcoming Methodist conference paper entitled; Justice for Palestine and Israel .
The Board of Deputies represent a broad cross-section of the Jewish community throughout Britain, and are the chief voice of British Jewry:
Tags: Church Life
June 24th, 2010 at 11:43 pm
As ever the dutiful student, I read the complete text of the Methodist Conference paper, and the Board of Deputies response.
For what it’s worth, this is my reaction:
There appear to be some obvious factual errors in the Conference paper. Some of the sources used by the authors of the Conference Paper are certainly partial, and there is a lack of balance. There is a propensity to accept unreliable information at face value, and to make unwarranted conclusions.
However, there are undoubtedly some damning statements about the historical and ongoing Israeli attitude towards the displaced indigenous people which are demonstably correct. It is a sorry tale, and Israel does not come out of it well. Yes, there are legitimate concerns for the current safety of Israeli civilians, but Israel so often embarks on entirely inappropriate actions to address these, and too often does not appear to differentiate between combatants and civilians; nor do they seem to care. Ideology too often takes precedence over common sense and common decency towards fellow humans.
I am puzzled as to why people unconditionally support the State of Israel out of Biblical belief. The modern State of Israel has almost nothing in common with the Jews of the Old Testament. I have much sympathy with the authors of the Methodist Conference paper. I can understand the Board of Deputies’ response, but I cannot understand the indignation expressed by European Christians.
June 25th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
@Jim
Not all Palestinians are aboriginal. Some Palestinians (not all) came after 1900. Furthermore, a significant percentage of Israel’s population are descendants of Jewish refugees from neighboring Arab countries. Secondly, Israel does not purposely kill civilians. Remember the “Jenin Massacre” where Israel was have said to have killed 700+ civilians and it killed about 50 people, the vast majority combatants. I agree we need peace no but biased resolutions are not the reason.
June 25th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
@comet7
Actually I think we’re largely in agreement.
Both sides have made errors which result in unintended “collateral damage”- but then that is the nature of being human, and they are perhaps understandable within their context. Perhaps the main error in the Conference paper is the over-simplification of some of the issues behind these errors.
As a disinterested observer with no allegiance to either side I do try to be impartial. That does not stop me being frustrated by the unhelpful behaviour sometimes displayed by one side or the other. Many external agencies have tried to bang heads together to establish a baseline for peaceful co-existence, but often it seems that neither side is really interested in a mutually beneficial resolution.
But I remember thinking something similar about the conflict in Northern Ireland, and yet now it seems that the seemingly impossible has indeed become possible. I live in hope for peace in the Middle East in my lifetime…
June 26th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
@Jim,
“I live in hope for peace in the Middle East in my lifetime…”
Your comments on the subject are naive – peace at any price, with the risk that the price of that peace is the foundation for a 2nd Holocaust.
This conflict is in no way comparable with NI.
June 26th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
I stand with Goy here! Jim, you are off base, both theologically and historically, here! If we are not vigilant indeed another Holocaust could happen in another type of historical context to Israel and the Jewish people. True Christians must stand with modern Israel! One simply cannot be “impartial” on this most profound subject and reality. I am dumbfounded myself, that so-called Christians cannot see the historical and theological reality of the Jewish people, and the Modern State of Israel! This of course does not mean they cannot error, but it does mean that they are still the covenant People of God, nationally. This is simply a no brainer to my mind and theology. I speak simply and without any “bark” attached.
June 26th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
Further study on this subject, shows to my mind that many Christians (so-called), are simply ignorant of the OT history, and the continued reality of the Salvation History of God. “To the Jew first and also to the Greek (Gentile). (Rom. 1:16) And there is really no “supersession” in the doctrine and theology of God! (Gal. 4:26 / Heb. 12:22-24 / Rev. 21: 2 – Isa. 52 / Ezek. 36-37)
June 27th, 2010 at 9:04 am
Let me be clear. I think the paper prepared for the conference is not impartial, and I hope readers have the good sense to see through to what is not said, or to take the witness statements for the limited one sided views that they portray.
But I sense that many people support Israel unconditionally, no matter what they do. To a dipassionate outsider this does nothing to help the case for Israel.
Of course I do not seek peace at any price, and I have never said that I do. But unless you believe that there are NO grounds for any consideration of the needs of the non-Israeli Jews living in that area, then some form of compromise is necessary to take this forward to a more lasting peaceful co-existence.
I did not say that the conflict was comparable with that in Northern Ireland. What I said was that the seemingly impossible became possible. And I do sincerely wish that the peace that seems now imposssible in the Middle east, will one day become possible. But NOT at any cost. Isreal must make some compromises to achieve that. For instance, I would like to see the settlement of occupied territories reversed. Yes, I want to see a strong and viable Israel, but an Israel where strength is always tempered by justice and compassion for others. You do not beat an alternative ideology by force. You beat it by providing a better ideological solution.
June 27th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
Jim,
Your position is political, rather than theological. It is not really for us Christians in the West to preach to Israel. As I have said, the Nation of modern Israel, in “their” land, is indeed Jewish people that have returned to their land, and have become by the providence of God very central in the world once again. Especially since from Scripture “the times of the Gentiles” seems to be closing in much so-called Christian apostasy. Those of us that are not deluded by modernism, postmodernism both theologically and politically, know that God will restore His own first covenant people, in His time. This is not “dispensationalism” persay, but part of the covenant Salvation History of God. How can the Christian Church not see this “covenant” relationship, again especially as we move along eschatologically? Humanity will not survive without God’s divine intervention! We are seeing those “apocalyptical” signs even daily, both moral loss, and the ecological.
June 27th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
@Fr. Robert (Anglican),
“We are seeing those “apocalyptical” signs even daily, both moral loss, and the ecological.” – interesting comment. Do you know what a moment of kairos is in the sense of an experience.
June 27th, 2010 at 10:48 pm
Goy,
Please elucidate…but grace is always really experiential, in one way or another. Even when it is positional, it fills us with “knowing” or divine wisdom, i.e. “knowledge” of God. Note, (2 Peter 1: 2).
June 28th, 2010 at 11:14 am
@Fr. Robert (Anglican),
This is too much of a public space to go into detail, but the comment you made concurs with an awareness put in my path.
July 2nd, 2010 at 10:28 pm
As someone who studies the Near East, both archaeologically and historically, I’m fairly aware of the issues involved concerning this report.
That being said, the reply to this report from the said Jewish community does very little to point out what is wrong with the report, and much more to discredit the reporters and the Conference. Academically, it’s a pretty poor start to any defence.
July 3rd, 2010 at 12:45 am
Sadly we are seeing a shift in some historic churches against the modern Nation of Israel. It is somewhat poor theology, for our theology does really affect our beliefs, but it is mainly the idea of political correctness. Very sad indeed! True Christians can only love the Nation of Israel, how can they not, when Jesus was very Jewish, and we gentiles but share in the covenants of Israel.
July 3rd, 2010 at 12:54 am
@ Fr. Robert
I think I should make it clear that I am not myself a Christian. Just thought I should make that clear as I think your responses assume that I am. I am a keen student of religion, but without a particular allegiance. I can understand the indignation felt about many things said about Israel. My point was that they are not perfect, they do make mistakes, and they can be arrogant. Overall though I think the paper does little to further the goal for Peace in the region.
July 3rd, 2010 at 1:16 am
Jim,
I thought you might be another “Jim” I know? That’s fine. I both fought in Gulf War 1 (British Royal Marine), and I also lived and taught in Israel in the later 90′s. It is no secret that I love the Jewish people, culture and the Land of Israel.
Have you ever read Martin Buber?
July 19th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
People are entitled to opinions whether justified or not. However the expression of those opinions, particularly by a so-called respected body (Methodists) must take extreme care in sensitive situations. In the reported opinion of the author of the report it has been suggested that the Jews no longer deserve their covenant…… Well, that was what Martin Luther said the corollory of which was “burn their synagogues, burn them…and their damned lies”.
Adolf Hitler picked up on that most successfully. That is why the Methodists have now condemned themselves as the friends of the anti-semite.
July 19th, 2010 at 10:53 pm
Yes, lets call it the way it is, certainly anti-semite! The new so-called Christian hatred of modern Israel is just plainly that!
July 19th, 2010 at 11:43 pm
Let us not forget.
July 20th, 2010 at 10:00 am
I am grateful that some Christians are still able think this through (Fr.Robert /Phoebs). Today is a good day for a reality check as it is Tisha B’Av which is the ninth of the month of Av – the commemoration of the destruction of the Temple by Nebuchadnezzar and later the 2nd Temple by the Roman occupiers of Judaea. The Jewish people have survived through their philosophy that disaster must be met by constructive self-determination. That is why Israel exists today as a beacon of hope, but still surrounded by those who indulge themselves in the negativity of disaster.
July 20th, 2010 at 11:41 am
I stand with Israel.
July 20th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
This looks to be a nice piece on the support of Modern Israel.
http://www.theird.org/Page.aspx?pid=1559&frcrld=1
July 20th, 2010 at 6:42 pm
I have to tell you that I am a Jew and one who is critical of many of Israel’s policies some of which have not necessarily been in that country’s best interests. (I stumbled upon this blog whilst researching matters connected to the Methodist resolution.)
That said I shall always defend Israel when she is being attacked unfairly and in a prejudicial and biased way. People fail to see the whole picture and are selective about the facts they allow to influence their opinions. In recent history both Christians and Muslims have committed acts of butchery such as Srebrenica and 9/11, but I would be totally unreasonable to thereby condemn all Christians and Muslims. Israel has its faults but does not seek deliberately to massacre innocents any more than many other countries involved in conflicts throughout the world.
July 20th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
Michael,
I will always stand with Israel, they are not perfect. But they are not the bad guys certainly! We know who they are.