Christians and the election “shrug”
Cross-post Cranmer’s Curate
IS UKIP ENTITLED TO THE CHRISTIAN VOTE?
The UKIP candidate for Stocksbridge and Penistone, Mr Grant French, has commented as follows on your curate’s post – UKIP: Christians schools ‘must be allowed to do what it says on the tin’:
Can I point you to what will most likely be my election address? (Teach our children English, Maths and Science – not sex.) As a father of 3 girls of school age. I will not allow their morality to be influenced by this sick government. My seven-year-old will not be attending sex education.
UKIP is certainly being vocal in support of Judeo-Christian values in education for which it should be applauded. Whether it is the right party for an orthodox Christian to vote for is another matter. There are two most helpful perspectives on the UKIP question in the letters section of April’s Evangelicals Now.
Mr Fred Lush of Bideford, Devon, supports UKIP and argues that a vote for a minor party is not a wasted vote:
I believe that the idea of a ‘wasted vote’ is misleading, and encouraged by the major parties to enhance their share of votes.
If it is believed that votes for minor parties are wasted we shall at some time have an exclusive two party system.
Mr Graeme Kemp of Wellington, Shropshire, left UKIP in the late 1990s
as the party drifted further to the right. And, indeed, UKIP has increasingly adopted a much tougher stance on immigration. UKIP is obsessed with defending ‘Britishness’.
Additionally, the party oddly blames the welfare state for educational failure, crime and family breakdown. A lot of people hit by the ‘credit crunch’ and unemployed would disagree with that kind of sentiment.
He concludes:
If we are to take the Bible seriously on social justice issues, and concern for the poor, then voting for fringe right-wing parties is not really an option for Christians, I believe.
It is vitally important that Christians engage with this coming election and do not capitulate to the ‘whatever’ society, the politics of ‘the shrug’, as Ann Widdecombe terms it. We are facing a squeeze on our Christian liberties and this is likely to get worse whether the Conservatives or Labour get to power and even worse if we have a hung Parliament with politically-correct Liberal Democrats holding the balance.
Christ’s servants must be seen to be concerned for the welfare of the earthly city in which we spend our time of exile, more concerned though we should be with our heavenly home. The Apostle Paul expresses our Christian hope so wonderfully in Philippians 3v20-21:
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Saviour from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body (NIV).
Tags: Christianity, Politics
March 31st, 2010 at 4:06 pm
Would Mr Graeme Kemp like us to completely lift our border controls? From his post I get this impression.
Yes let’s lift them! This should guarantee the end of Christianity in Britain. Guess who’s going to fill the country if we do? Put it this way, it won’t be Anglicans!
What’s wrong with Britishness? I’m proud of my culture. It’s not perfect, but which culture is? I also believe its potential replacement is far worse.
Mr Kemp defends the benefits system. We also want to defend the safety net, it’s the fishing net it has become we have a problem with. No-one would not want to help the “needy“. However, when the
” Needy “are outside a pub everyday. I question their need. I could fill the server up with examples of benefit abuse. We simply cannot afford the system as it is. We are virtually bankrupt. All the income tax we all pay doesn’t cover the benefit system. This situation is un-tenable. A system that without doubt encourages children out of wedlock, and makes a Father a financial burden. Cannot be supported by anyone purporting to be a conservative Christian. Employment is the way to get people out of poverty. The Tax Payers Alliance estimates EU membership costs Britain as much as £120 billion per year. Just HALF of that would pay for 3 million jobs @ £20,000 p.a. Imagine!
As for his fear of a hung parliament, this only seems a fear of British political establishment. Other parliaments all over the world seem to do quite well under them. A majority government can pass any poor legislation it likes with a three line whip.
The Liberals forming part of a coalition government may not be the as bad as you think. The reason being, they will insist on proportional representation being part of any deal. Then millions of disenfranchised voters will see their vote count.
Please have a look at our policies, here are our policies please make your own mind up.
http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies
April 8th, 2010 at 11:37 pm
I Totally agree with your comments and am glad Christians are speaking out. I pray God is with us when the election of the PM happens.
April 9th, 2010 at 11:40 am
Thankyou Elle, I think you must be a good person. As you even try to understand Edith Crowther. I think she’s mad! The whole BNP concept is wrong in my opinion. The colour of a mans heart is what is important.
April 11th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
Please watch this, it explains why evil is tearing apart western society.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c
April 11th, 2010 at 9:16 pm
@Grant French: What in heaven’s name has this American burbling on about 9/11 and the Democrats got to do with our election? Are you sure you provided the right link?
April 11th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
As this video is 47 minutes long I posted it at 904 you posted at 916.
So you haven’t watched it. The video is about understanding how people who want to destroy our morality think. If you watch it through you will not be disapointed. Yes, he’s speaking at the Heritage foundation so it has a conservative slant. Please watch it through Sophie.
April 11th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
I watched about 4 minutes of it, and wasn’t impressed.
It’s seriously cheeky asking people to watch 47 minutes of anything – and I shan’t bother. It’s American gibberish – and this is a British election, isn’t it?
I liked the story about the guy’s wife. Made me wonder whether any of the New Yorkers who poured cash into Noraid buckets made any connection between that and the twin towers. The Americans finally discovered that terrorism can be imported as well as exported.
April 11th, 2010 at 10:22 pm
Sophie, Well done! You managed to miss the bit about teenage promiscuity, abortion and the attack on decency and morality. However you did manage to use it as excuse, to show your biggoted attitude toward Americans. “Did he catch a raw nerve?”
April 11th, 2010 at 10:56 pm
As I said, I only saw the first few minutes, and that was quite enough. You don’t do yourself any favours politically by giving the impression that the UKIP, far from being independent, is simply borrowing its policies from the American right.
April 11th, 2010 at 11:00 pm
Oh, and for real shoot-yourself-in-the-foot aplomb, let’s give it up for the gibe “Did he catch a raw nerve?”
Well, yes, actually. I think most British people find the fact that the IRA was funded by the US hard to take. And it says a lot about you that you can mock that.
April 11th, 2010 at 11:21 pm
Sorry Sophie, I thought this was a Christian site??? The purpose of the video was not to promote the American right. It is puzzling to many of us non-progressives. Why some people want to tear apart all we hold as “good and propper”. I think he gives a good explanation.
It is not UKIP policy. I thought some on here may find it interesting. Not everyone has an axe to grind with the American people. Most people are not racist like yourself. You switched off because you are a biggot, not because of the content. Anyone looking at the timespan of your posts can see that.
I would guess you are young. Have you recently been through the humanities dept of one our universities?
April 11th, 2010 at 11:36 pm
As for your point about the funding of the IRA. I don’t think the Jews were behind that. I’m sure you’ll find some nut to say they were. The majority of American people had nothing to do with that.
I totally agree with you, that the administation in the US should have stopped Noraid. I ask why our diplomats didn’t put enough pressure on the US government to stop it? That still doesn’t make it right to judge a people, by the actions of a small minority.
April 12th, 2010 at 12:59 am
Its mad arguing against ourselves. I cry and pray every night but know that GOD is always in control. Things in the world must happen as it says in the Bible “do not concern yourselves with these things” I know we are in “The start of sorrows” Mathew chapter 24. I know whats in my heart yet others in the world have their eyes,ears and hearts closed. I just praise the LORD that i have faith in what HE wants to do, as i am a sinner can only pray for those that are lost. God Bless youxxx
April 12th, 2010 at 11:10 am
@ Grant French: I’m confused. I re-checked the headline and, yes, this debate is about the UK election and the UKIP’s role in it. So far you’ve said nothing that promotes your political cause. What is your point – and no, I don’t have time to watch 47 minutes of some random bloke. It’s not racist, btw, to find the views of both the Republicans and America’s religious right offensive and unchristian.
You say the Youtube guy talks about promiscuous teens – I suppose it might have taken him half an hour to work the argument across from Islamist fanatics to promiscuous teens. Who knows? Not me – life’s too short. Especially at my advanced age. Think about it – how many 20 somethings would remember Noraid? And I have no idea where Jews come in, if they do – remember, I didn’t watch the silly thing.
Besides, if you’re on a mission to do something about promiscuous teens going into politics is not the answer. Unless you plan to make either teenagers or promiscuity illegal?
Seems to me that economic malpractice/fraud at the highest levels of society and proven corruption in both the Lords and the Commons are the issues for this election. It’s greedy adults who are the source of most misery and wrongdoing in this world, not kids. The banking system and its safeguards must be our priorities. To witter on about British values when our whole economy needs rebuilding is just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
I’m with Graeme Kemp: “If we are to take the Bible seriously on social justice issues, and concern for the poor, then voting for fringe right-wing parties is not really an option for Christians, I believe.”
April 12th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
So you want me to promote my party. Great!
UKIP wants a British parliament that is answerable to the British people. You mention corruption; at least we will soon have the chance to vote out the corrupt politicians. This is not the case with the EU commission. The commission which, generates at least 75% of our law. We want direct referenda on major issues such as, abortion, euthanasia, animal rights and the death penalty. Why should MP’s be in charge of our moral issues, many have been proved to be ethically challenged? Especially the EU commission please see. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWSYMpuCFaQ
Our ultimate goal would be Swiss type democracy. Where important decisions, are given to the people in national and local referenda. If a supermarket chain wants to build a new store, the local people are polled in the immediate area. There is no point in bribing corrupt officials.
Your post makes no sense at all. You harp on about the state of the economy in one paragraph, and then agree with Mr Kemp in another. Mr Kemp wants to open our borders and put even more strain on our benefits system. We don’t have enough jobs for the people here already, never mind let any more people in.
We have 8 million economically inactive people in this country. The entire income tax revenue is not enough to pay for the benefit system. As I said in a previous post the way out of poverty is employment.
The tax payer’s alliance estimates our membership of the EU costs us £120 billion. As you won’t have the attention span to find out how much this figure is, I will write it down £120,000,000,000. That could be 6,000,000 jobs at £20,000 about average income. Brussels would rather distribute this £6,000,000 to 20 000 people. The EU makes our parliament look angelic. The auditors haven’t signed the books off for 8 years in Brussels.
You have made it perfectly clear you have no time for abstinence and think promiscuity is the way forward. Those children become adults. What sort of adults do you think they will become without moral guidance.
May I suggest you do start spending the odd 47 minutes listening to the Jew who’s speaking. Not an evangelical far right preacher. Then your posts wouldn’t be one huge contradiction.
April 12th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
You’re a useless politician – bad at PR, bad at talking to “Joe Public”, and you definitely haven’t got the knack of winning friends and influencing people.
You can be mean to voters once you’re in, Grant baby. Being filthy rude to them *before* the election just means you lose your deposit.
You’ll not get a further reply. Your post doesn’t warrant one.
April 12th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
Our strap line for the Election is “Sraight Talking”. This country has had quite enough of politicians talking out of the corner of their mouths. We are in dire straights and need the truth, even if it’s not what we want to hear. Please vote for the failed old parties, they’ve done such a good job so far. There is comfort in knowing where your going in this world, even if it’s downhill fast.
April 13th, 2010 at 11:21 am
I can trace my roots back in Britain to the reign of Henry VIII. My family have been involved in Christian Faith all through these eras. My father who has passed away(Ex Royal Marine) fought in WWII against the Japanese, He did not fight for the EU he fought for his Country and many of his friends died infront of him. We need our Country back! I support UKIP as the Christian Party is not running where i live. The EU is the revived Roman Empire as stated in the Bible. I with many other Christians across Britain will be Fasting and Praying for two days before the General Election for Our LORD to intervene. I support Revelations TV (channel581 Sky) in bringing us Christians together in the Election. We as a nation only have 25% leeway in our laws we pass the other 75% is held in Brussels. I have been posting UKIP leaflets as we need a vote whether to stay in the EU. I asked Lord Pearson whether he was a Christian and Yes he is. I believe we would do well to get out and scrape back our Christian morals and values in this country. Praise the LORD we succeed in bringing HIS truth, HIS justice, HIS laws & values back to our Country. God be with us all. Amen.
May 2nd, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Well, thanks for quoting me, with reference to my letter in Evangelicals Now ! However:
I’ve never advocated open borders – only open minds. My letter in EN newspaper did not even deal with immigration – at all. Some people (above) are getting excited and confused about views I don’t actually hold.
Taxation is the price of living in a civilised society – I only wish it was more civilised! Benefits are incredibly low. With the ‘credit crunch’ hitting families and individuals, that’s wrong – most have paid in to the system through taxation, anyway.
Maintaining state spending helps keep demand and investment high, by the way. Cuts will lead to a double-dip recession.
The birth of children outside marriage has little to do with the benefit system, but changing morals.
I’ve never been a fan on the E.U. either! It’s just right-wing parties like UKIP I no longer love.
Am I glad I left UKIP? Yes!
May 2nd, 2010 at 8:59 pm
Sorry, my letter obviously did mention immigration!
What I meant to say……..is that I did not deal with unrestricted immigration in the letter or support it.
May 2nd, 2010 at 9:16 pm
Mr Kemp, have you moved to a foreign land? Otherwise I don’t see how you could not know; we have a £167Billion budget deficit. Yes we are spending £167,000,000,000 more than we are receiving in taxes.
So how do you expect us to pay more out in benefits? We need less people on benefits. This will never happen while we allow foreigners to take jobs our people could do. While we are in the EU we can’t stop this happening.
Benefits may not be a millionaire lifestyle but benefits are a better lifestyle than minimum wage for most. Minimum wage is about £11500 per annum yet the average benefit recipient would need £15000 per annum to make coming of benefits viable.
I can cope with maintaining a level of public spending but what on? Infrastructure? No! Jeremy Kyle viewing figures.
There are ways of cutting public spending with hardly any effect on ordinary people. First cut the giant quango in Brussels, which the tax payer’s alliance estimate costs UK Plc £120billion per annum. Then the British quangos. Then there’s management consultancy £10,000 per public sector employee. 6,000,000 X £10,000 Just three and we’re nearly there.
The difference between UKIP and the failed old parties is we have to balance the books in the real world.
No-one can balance them if we keep importing too many people, as we have been for too long now.
May 3rd, 2010 at 12:49 am
Did Jesus not say “test the Spirits” and thats what i did and found that the only candidate in my area that was willing to talk to me was from UKIP. He phoned me and we talked for an hour about different issues and his faith. In the end we have 1 vote and it will all be over. So as a Christian to another Christian we can only pray for our nation and hope God hears us. Bless you.