Gay couple Michael Black and John Morganwere turned away from Swiss B&B house by the owner Susanne Wilkinson who said it was “against her convictions” for two men to share a bed.

This one caught my eye in the news and I predict this latest “episode” may have the potential to become the new battlefront and rallying point, for both sides of the divide.

First I read the BBC report:-

A gay couple were turned away from a Berkshire guest house by the owner who said it was “against her convictions” for two men to share a bed.

Michael Black and John Morgan, from Brampton, Cambridgeshire, had booked a double room at the Swiss B&B, Terry’s Lane, in Cookham, for Friday night.

When they arrived Susanne Wilkinson refused to let them stay.

She admitted she did turn the couple away because it was against her policy to accommodate same sex couples.

The couple have now reported the matter to Thames Valley Police.

Under the Equality Act 2006 it is illegal to discriminate against people on the grounds of sexual orientation.

Ms Wilkinson told the BBC: “They gave me no prior warning and I couldn’t offer them another room as I was fully booked.

“I don’t see why I should change my mind and my beliefs I’ve held for years just because the government should force it on me.

“I am not a hotel, I am a guest house and this is a private house.”

Mr Black and Mr Morgan were in the village, near Maidenhead, to meet some friends for dinner and to see a local play.

Mr Black told the BBC: “We’re two respectable middle-aged men – John is leader of the Lib Dem group on Huntingdon Town Council.

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I must admit I breathed a heavy sigh of relief when I noted an absence of the word “Christian” in this BBC report, however, my relief was short lived:

Guardian:

[....]

Mrs Wilkinson said: “I don’t see why I should change my mind and my beliefs I’ve held for years just because the government should force it on me.

“The property is not a hotel. It operates as a guest house and private home.”

Mr Wilkinson disputed the couple’s claim that they had not been given a friendly welcome.

“We are Christians and we believe our rights don’t have to be subordinated. We have religious freedom and we are not judging that but we are not prepared to have that sort of activity under our roof,” he said. “These people are very organised and we have already been inundated with abusive calls and emails. It is really sad that people act like that.”

A Thames Valley police spokeswoman said she could not comment on the particular case, but added that similar complaints would normally tend to be dealt with as civil matters.

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Get your tin hats on folks, cos here we go again. I wonder which Christian legal group will be first out of the blocks.

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87 Responses to “Gay couple Michael Black and John Morganwere turned away from Swiss B&B house by the owner Susanne Wilkinson who said it was “against her convictions” for two men to share a bed.”

  1. Marie Says:

    If it were a straight couple asking for a double bed would she have asked to see a marriage certificate? Hating someone means loving yourself less, down with discrimination, and thats exactly what this is.

  2. Stephanie Says:

    I agree with Marie, also may I add it is illegal to discriminate on the grounds of sexual orientation, it has been since 2007 when the amendment to the UK Sex Discrimination Act (1975) was passed in respect to the delivery of goods, facilities and services.

  3. Sophie, Surrey Says:

    I think small family-run guest houses can turn away people in rare circumstances: a man with an obviously paid companion, for example. They have some leeway because private B&Bs are often also family homes. However unless these charmers can prove they demand proof of marital status from *all* couples they haven’t got a leg to stand on, faithwise.

    I agree with you, webmaster, in expecting some evangelical group to leap on this lost cause.

  4. Paul Says:

    Homosexualist activity is a peverted and unnatural abomination and to have that sort of activity inside your own home is unthinkable for any Christian.

  5. Jane Says:

    Did you really expect the word “Christian” to be absent from this incident? This woman typifies so many churchgoers (I deny them the word “Christian”) who have been fed hate and who are incapable of questioning and understanding for themselves, thus they regurgitate verbatim what they have been told is Christianity. I’m lesbian and gave up on my church, on my church council membership, on my theology degree studies in despair at the direction in which Christian expression is being pushed. It’s the attitudes voiced by this woman but now mainstream in what remains of Christian expression which are rapidly reducing Christianity to no more than a cult band of ignorant bigots brandishing a magic book with all the answers.

  6. Dave North Says:

    “Homosexualist activity is a peverted and unnatural abomination and to have that sort of activity inside your own home is unthinkable for any Christian.”

    Paul Says:

    Bigotry and ill thought out discrimination is a perverted and unnatural abomination, and only compounded by ignoring the laws of the land.

    Laws created by a democratically elected government.

  7. Sophie, Surrey Says:

    Paul Says: “Homosexualist activity is a peverted and unnatural abomination and to have that sort of activity inside your own home is unthinkable for any Christian.”

    What do you say to the openly gay clergy around the world or to the friends and families of Christian homosexuals? And would you say it aloud at work or indeed anywhere but anonymously here or in your own home?

    Not all Christians agree with you, Paul. Indeed as far as England goes you’re very much in the minority.

    Personally I find poor grammar far more upsetting than homosexuality. Homosexuality is involuntary, literacy can be learnt.

  8. Sophie, Surrey Says:

    Jane says: “I’m lesbian and gave up on my church, on my church council membership, on my theology degree studies in despair at the direction in which Christian expression is being pushed. It’s the attitudes voiced by this woman but now mainstream in what remains of Christian expression which are rapidly reducing Christianity to no more than a cult band of ignorant bigots brandishing a magic book with all the answers.”

    This so much saddens me. It’s so wrong. I don’t honestly know what to say. I know what you’re saying is true. I haven’t come across it in the churches I’ve attended but a friend of mine had to change churches because people in the first one told her she shouldn’t spend time with her son’s gay godfather.

    I’ve just posted on another topic about this “new” medievalism. Having been brought up in a liberal Christian tradition I find the evangelical bigots very scary and off-putting. OK, they’re not the Taleban, but their beliefs are pretty repulsive and they seem to be gaining ground.

    Remember, Jane, that however much the evangelicals rant, the majority in the C of E don’t have a problem with your sex or your sexuality. However I can imagine that whereas the ordinary “woman in the pew” has no problem with you, it’s presumably the politically motivated and prominent right wing activists that give you a hard time. And they’re the people you have to deal with, again and again. It’s a lot easier standing up for gay rights if you’re not gay. Opposition doesn’t hurt so much when it’s not personal. I know how painful I find it trying to communicate with men who assume my inferiority.

    What’s particularly creepy is that the closeted gay clergy are, I understand, often those most passionately opposed to the ordination of women. There was a very funny piece on the subject in the Oldie last year.

  9. Jane Says:

    Sophie, it may well be that the majority in the CofE have no problem with minority sexuality. Unfortunately, that majority remains largely silent and the “right wing activists” then impose their agenda. I’d say that there’s also a tremendous failure of leadership in the CofE, as was noticeable in respect of the proposed legislation (including the death penalty) aimed at gay people in Uganda, well going back years, including (among so many instances) the Jeffrey John cowardice and the attempts to intimidate the Episcopal Church of USA. The fundamentalists step in and fill the vacuum and follow a proven technique for providing a group cohesion which is to find something to oppose (or to hate), in this case lesbians and gay men. I haven’t ceased to find the philosophy underlying Christianity a wonderful guide for living. The churches, however, no longer express that philosophy.

  10. Webmaster Says:

    One of my fav quotes comes to mind from Ghandi:

    I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

  11. Sophie, Surrey Says:

    @Jane. The Reform website has this to say on Jeffrey John “Perhaps regrettably, the gay issue (in the Western world at least) is becoming a key indicator of whether someone is willing to obey Christ and his Word.”

    What an *astonishing* thing to say! Materialism, injustice, terrorism, oppression, civil war, cultural change: forget how a Christian might confront these issues. Forget all the noble and wide-reaching aspects of the human spirit. Let’s focus on nothing but sex… Sex is, after all, a “key indicator.”

    These guys are supposed to be Christians. Their attitude isn’t Christian, it’s prurient and debasing. Later in the same piece being gay is compared to “theft, drunkenness and swindling.”

    http://www.reform.org.uk/pages/bb/JeffreyJohn.php

  12. webmaster Says:

    UPDATE: looks like it was the Christian Institute first out of the blocks on this one:

    http://www.christian.org.uk/news/gay-couple-may-sue-christian-bb-owners/

    Distressed

    The Christian Institute’s Mike Judge said: “I have spoken with the Wilkinsons today. They are understandably distressed that they could be facing a costly legal action simply for acting upon their sincerely held religious beliefs.

    “It’s not just their B&B, it’s their home too. Nobody should be forced to act against their own beliefs within their own home.

    “Whether you agree with the Wilkinsons’ beliefs or not, a diverse society is one that respects diversity of opinion. Surely the world is big enough to let people disagree.

    “Suing someone because you don’t like their beliefs is illiberal, undemocratic and has no place in a free society.”

  13. Jane Says:

    I understand that the Law prohibits discrimination in the provision or refusal of goods or services on the basis of, among other criteria, gender and sexuality. The Wilkinsons are running a business and taking payment for doing so. Effectively, the Christian Institute is saying that people ought not to be obliged to respect the Law if it is in conflict with their religious beliefs, thus placing theology (or their interpretation of it) above the secular Law enacted by democratically elected lawmakers. Sophie, this is a perfect illustration of where the right wing activists are leading Christianity.

  14. Jane Says:

    Sophie, I’d say that Christianity is progressively marginalising itself and, certainly inadvertantly, the attitude of the evangelicals to gay issues has become a catalyst in this, a self-inflicted wound. In the world outside Christianity, a person’s attitude to gay people and gay issues has perhaps become the “canary in the mine” for judging whether they are “good people”, the polar opposite of the criteria set out by the right wing activists for being truly Christian.

  15. Sophie, Surrey Says:

    Odd you should say that, Jane. I’d consider joining the Humanists if i didn’t have this darn inconvenient belief in God…

    But where *are* all these homophobic evangelicals? None of them ever speak to me in real life. If they did, I’d answer. But although I come across them often online I never meet them in the flesh.

    The person I know who was confronted by RL anti-gay opinions left that church and started attending another. I suppose that’s all you *can* do, as a punch in the nose might cause offence. :-)

  16. Sophie, Surrey Says:

    @webmaster: You said it would happen! And there it is! Respect!

    As I wrote, I’m not sure what the law says on B&Bs if they’re part of a family’s private house. Now we’ll find out.

  17. Cocteau Says:

    I would assume that if they are operating the B&B as a business
    and paying tax/Vat etc then they will come under the “goods and services” provision of the act.

    If they are not paying tax/Vat then I can only assume that HMRC may come calling.

  18. Jane Says:

    Well, if B&B’s are exempt from equality legislation, then we really are in for fun and games. Just wait for the first case of Muslims being turned away!

  19. Mike Says:

    Homosexuality is not accepted by some people and it is about time they are able to stand up for what they believe in!

    Maybe one day I will be able to marry my beloved pet or maybe not to far in the distant future beastiality will be accepted.

    Yes gays, lesbians are humans and should be respected for that but same sex marriages should not. So some people say this is the 21st centuary so what is in store for us in the 22nd centuary. Marry my brother, sister, mother or father or maybe I will be able to marry my daughter? Maybe I will be able to marry my neighbours 10 year old daughter? Some things are just not meant to be and homesexuality is one of them!

  20. Jane Says:

    Mike, you forgot to mention GoGo hamsters.
    As for paedophilia, do you really want to go there?

  21. Cocteau Says:

    Sorry Mike, but Homosexuality exists whether you like it or not.

    It has been observed in over 1,500 species in nature, a nature whether you like it or not are part of.

    It has been around since the dawn of man, thousands of years before the beginning of Christianity.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

    Marrying your neighbors 10 year old daughter is called incest and is illegal for obvious reasons.

    How dare you compare an innate inborn feature of human sexuality to bestiality.

    Bestiality and incest is WITHOUT consent of one party.

    I’m pretty sure the Klu Klux Klan went through the same emotive responses that you are going through when slavery was abolished.

    Also, for your information, same sex marriages do not exist in the UK, they are called “Civil Partnerships” and allow the loving partners “some” of the civil and legal rights of Marriage.

    The right to visit their dying partner in hospital being one, a right previously denied.

    The right to inherit the home they shared for X years, a right previously denied.

    These civil rights in no way impinge on your or anyone elses, assuming you have one, religious based marriage.

  22. Dr. Robin Guthrie Says:

    Dear Mike, 7:40PM

    I can only assume from you post regarding your belief the you wish to educate people regarding God’s Law. From you post I have learned a great deal and I will try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can.

    When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination.

    End of debate.

    I do need some advice from you however regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them.

    My important Biblically-based questions
    are listed below.

    I would guess given your forthright post that you have studied the bible extensively in order to come by those beliefs and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.

    1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations.

    A friend of mine claims that this applies to the Irish, but not English people.

    Can you clarify? Why can’t I own some Englishmen?

    2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.

    In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price?

    3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15: 19-24.

    The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord – Lev.1:9.

    The problem is: my neighbours

    They claim the odour is not pleasing to them.

    Should they be smitten?

    5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death.

    Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

    6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
    abomination – Lev.. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than
    homosexuality.

    I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

    Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?

    7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight.

    I have to admit that I wear reading glasses.

    Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

    8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27.

    How should they be put to death?

    9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean.

    May I still play football if I wear gloves?

    10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend).

    He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot.

    Is it really necessary that I go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16.

    Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

    Thank you for reminding me that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

  23. Nick Says:

    The Christian Institute and Mrs Wilkinson seem to be confused. They state that they are being persecuted because of their beliefs. This is not true. They are free to believe what they like, the problems start when they start enforcing their beliefs on others and find themselves discriminating and guilty of false advertising. The guesthouse website states ‘A warm and friendly welcome awaits ALL guests’ (emphasis mine) – first words on the first page. If you’ve been turned away on the grounds of your sexuality iIthink you have every right to consider that misleading. It’s no different from saying a room has a sea view when it blatantly doesn’t. And for that you can sue.

    Anyone who thinks it’s wrong to sue these people is misguided. No minority in history ever won rights and acceptance by keeping their mouths shut and towing the line. It’s all been done by a mixture of debate, direct protest and legal battles. If they need reminding, the Wilkinsons should recall that Christians went on crusades to further their aims back in the day. They shouldn’t be surprised when others choose to defend themselves against their beliefs.

  24. Sophie, Surrey Says:

    Hurrah for Dr. Robin Guthrie! How well put. Amusing too. Thank you.

    Interested parties have used the Bible over the generations to justify slavery, racism and the oppression of women, as well as the anti-gay nonsense we see here. It’s my understanding that many Biblical taboos – shellfish, pork, sodomy – are essentially public health measures and, just as with shellfish, sodomy isn’t a problem as long as relevant precautions are taken.

  25. Sophie, Surrey Says:

    Mike says: “Homosexuality is not accepted by some people and it is about time they are able to stand up for what they believe in!”

    No one – I mean no one – is suggesting that you become homosexual. There is no obligation for you to take part. Yes, it’s legal. But it’s not compulsory.

    As for marrying your neighbour’s 10 year old daughter, if you move to Saudi Arabia that shouldn’t be a problem, if you can afford the bride price.

  26. Jim Says:

    Well you’ve done it again webmaster – You’ve lit the blue touchpaper and watched the fireworks fly! ;)

    I’ve come late to this one,but I’ve really enjoyed reading the stimulating posts thus far. I note that those few supporting the Wilkinsons’ stance have not come back for a second bite. It would be interesting to hear more from them.

    As some of you know, I confess to being an Atheist Humanist. It’s tempting to sit back and enjoy the fireworks, but actually I think it is tragic that there are people who have a sincere belief in the Christian God, who are denied the support of their Church due to an archaic literal interpretation of Scripture.

    For me, Robin Guthrie’s post captured the underlying issue perfectly. Arguably a person’s particular brand of religious belief is unconsciously chosen by them to reflect their particular character and prejudices. Within the Church there appear to be plenty of misogynists and people intolerant of difference – People who find a very convenient excuse for their views within some of the verses in the Bible that may were considered mainstream a the time they were written, but which have now become archaic, and no longer acceptable.

    I do hope that none of those who object on scriptural grounds to homosexuaty would like to see mass executions of those who do not observe the sabbath! I think what they are really articulating, is that they personally still find homosexuality offensive. As an outsider, it appears to me that Scripture is just used as a convenient excuse to manifest their very secular prejudice.

  27. Jane Says:

    Jim, of course, the ability to find in a book words that you may be able to interpret as supporting your views on aspects of living is very comforting. I always dread the words “The Bible says…”, not because, particularly, of what may come after those words but because they tell me that that person has removed from their cupboard of reasoning the necessary intellectual safeguard that their understanding and interpretation may be, well, just wrong or incomplete……and also that the book may be wrong. I’ve lost count of the number of times attempts to argue a point with such people of closed minds have ended with the classic closing line, “well, either you have it or you don’t!”, referring of course to faith, (or rather again their interpretation of what faith ought to be). Rather than seeing The Bible or other works as part of a search for some meaning in existence, many people (I hesitate to say the majority of Christians) find it easier to switch off from questioning and instead see it as a kind of Wikipedia, an easy access to the thoughts of others, subsequently referenced as authoritative.

  28. Dr Robin Guthrie Says:

    This little god hates gays argument, “because it says so in the bible” put’s me in mind of another historical parallel.

    In the 1780s, St. George’s United Methodist Church in Philadelphia forced black congregrants to sit in a segregated area of the church.

    The Methodist Episcopal Church in America split in 1844 over the issue of slavery.

    The Episcopal church in the American south would not allow black slaves to lead a religious gathering in any capacity.

    Most southern slave owners were Anglican.

    They only allowed their slaves to meet in worship and prayer if it were led by a white person, and scripture was used repeatedly to drive home the lessons of slaves obeying their masters.

    The curse of Ham from Genesis 9:20-27 was used to justify
    enslavement of blacks.

    There were some bright spots.

    Not all Anglicans endorsed this view of blacks and slavery.

    In the northern United States, in Philadelphia, Absalom Jones was ordained in 1804 as the first black priest in the Anglican communion, to lead the African Episcopal Church of St. Thomas.

    Ironically enough, most black churches in America today are socially conservative, and a major force in opposing rights for gays and lesbiansm depite these parallels.

  29. webmaster Says:

    @Jim :)

    Interesting to note that the headline from the Christian Institute is:

    Christian B&B owners besieged by abuse

    And the headline from Pink News is:

    Gay B&B couple say support is ‘touching

  30. Simon Says:

    Dr. Guthrie, don’t forget the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa who used the Bible as justification for racism and apartheid.

    From a gay perspective please read this article in the Pink News:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/03/23/gay-bb-couple-say-support-is-touching/

    Thanks

  31. Jane Says:

    Mrs Wilkinson:

    “I don’t see why I should change my mind and my beliefs I’ve held for years just because the Government should force it on me”

    meaning:

    “The Law doesn’t apply to me because I don’t agree with it”.

    Lady, it doesn’t work that way.

  32. Brian Hanson Says:

    It is so interesting in this “struggle”, that the view of “tolerance” is so one-sided. Anyone who doesn’t agree with homosexuals are ALWAYS the ones who are demonized as “hatemongers”. I respectfully wish to submit to those of you who are so “tolerant” of others, could be a little more tolerant of those who have a different worldview than you! The fact that we don’t support your lifestyle does not make us “haters”. It simply means, (for whatever reason) that we disagree with you – the same right that YOU have to disagree with us. To us, sin is sin, no matter what year it is! If a thief or murderer says, “Hey, lighten up, this is the 21st century! If I want to kill someone, that’s just my worldview, and I think that I should be able to do so, without having people judge me or condemn me!” (If you think this example is too extreme, then do a little research on what is being taught to children about our “relative,” post-modern age, where statements like, “there is no right or wrong,” are being made and some instructors will even include killing and stealing, as shocking as that may be!) If the law of the land puts its seal of approval on killing, does that mean that all of us should adopt that as our personal conviction as well? I say, NO. If I choose to believe the Bible as my rule of law above the rule of man, then I am good company! The Apostles of Jesus said to their authorities in “Acts 4:19-20: 19 Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God’s sight to obey you rather than God. 20 For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard. NIV” So I say, it is not a matter of hate, but one of conscience. Like the Apostle’s, the government (or any other person) cannot force me or anyone else (including homosexuals) to violate their conscience before God! I do not hate homosexuals, but I do not think that anyone has a right to force on me their convictions, or I, my convictions on them and I wouldn’t. If you want a good or service that has been denied you, don’t go away mad, find someone who does agree with you, and stop persecuting those who don’t. I do not have a right to someone else’s service or property, even if they are atheists and decide to not serve Christians, that is their perogative. But instead of bringing them to court, or plastering them with “hate mail” and other perjoratives, perhaps it would be easier to just find someone who will serve me and keep the peace!

  33. Jane Says:

    Mr Hanson, we are not in a theocracy, we are in a secular state where decisions are made by representatives of the people freely elected. Less than 10% of the UK population regularly attends church. With respect (something I doubt you’d reciprocate to me as a gay Christian!), the “right” you and Christians like you claim to special consideration (actually as a cover for bigotry and hatred) is a relic of times past. Get real, get over it, you’re a small minority hankering for times past and withering away rather less than graciously.

  34. Dr Robin Guthrie Says:

    “To us, sin is sin, no matter what year it is! If a thief or murderer says”.

    And there lies the rub.

    Can you imagine for one moment going through life, constantly having to defend your very existance from nonsense like this.

    I neither want or need to be “tolerated”.

    All I ask is that my tax paying existance is deemed equal to everyone elses and not to be compared to “Thiefs and Murderers”.

    Personally, I am an aithiest/humanist.

    That is MY belief system.

    Being an NHS Surgeon, should I have the right to decide not to operate on a Christian, as they go against my belief system?

    The principle is EXACTLY the same as this B&B owner is trying to espouse.

  35. Brian Hanson Says:

    Once again, my point is completely missed. I did not say we live in a “theocracy”, my point is that I have a right to what I believe in my conscience before God and no human government or any other agency or human being has the right to challenge my conscience (what I think or believe). I also have the right to believe that things that other people do ARE sins, if I choose to believe it, just as others can CHOOSE not to believe that they are sinning! You can still live your life according to your conscience, regardless of what I think, for that is your right.

    And you being a surgeon, Dr Guthrie, I say to you , yes, that you have the right to deny your services to whomever you wish, because you do not OWE anyone your services. You and your patients enter into a professional agreement and are paid for those agreed upon services. So if you decide not to operate on Christians or anyone else you do not care to, then you are perfectly within your rights to do so. They can certainly find another doctor who will operate on them, if that is the case. This is not the issue, nor the point I was making. Once again, you have to reconcile your decisions on whom to operate on, based upon your OWN conscience. Neither the state nor anyone else can force you do so.

    The whole point of my comment is that I have a fundamental human right of believing what I want, just like everyone else. This does not make me a “hater”.

  36. Jane Says:

    Mr Hanson, the conscience of each one of us is to be respected but not where the exterior exercise of that conscience brings harm to others. Your rather weasel words that “no human government or any other agency or human being has the right to challenge my conscience” actually do amount to your abrogating to yourself the right to disregard any secular, popular laws that are inconvenient to your conscience.

    NO, NO, NO, NO!

    Your rights in society are not greater than mine or those of anyone else simply because you expound a particular brand of Christianity.

  37. Dr Robin Guthrie Says:

    “The whole point of my comment is that I have a fundamental human right of believing what I want, just like everyone else. This does not make me a “hater”.”

    But you go on to say:

    “To us, sin is sin”

    You consistently call homosexuals sinners, based on you world view, yet do not see that as insulting to the recipients, then say that you do not hate homosexuals.

    If that is the case, then why continue to insult them?

  38. Jane Says:

    Mr Hanson, the passage you quote, Acts 4:19-20 relates to the appearance of Peter and John before the Sanhedrin in which they effectively stated they would not obey the Civil Law. So are you advocating a programme of civil disobedience against laws democratically enacted?

  39. Sophie, Surrey Says:

    Brian Hanson Says: “…my point is that I have a right to what I believe in my conscience before God and no human government or any other agency or human being has the right to challenge my conscience (what I think or believe). I also have the right to believe that things that other people do ARE sins, if I choose to believe it, just as others can CHOOSE not to believe that they are sinning! You can still live your life according to your conscience, regardless of what I think, for that is your right.”

    What you seem to be missing is that no one is asking you or Ms Wilkinson to join in. If you believe homosexual acts are sinful then don’t perform any. Simple. Gay Christians do not believe they are sinning. You do. No one is forcing you to change your mind. Disapprove all you like. All the law asks is that you do not discriminate against gay people.

    “The whole point of my comment is that I have a fundamental human right of believing what I want, just like everyone else. This does not make me a “hater”.”

    Exactly my point. You can *believe* what you like. It’s what you *do* that matters. For example, there are lots of racists. As long as they treat everyone fairly, regardless of colour, that’s their business. What the law objects to is *acting on* these beliefs.

    Personally I believe adultery a major sin. In terms of human misery it’s one of the worst. Fornication is relatively benign, but both are sins. I’d imagine that the percentage of couples using a B&B in today’s society who aren’t married (or at least not to each other) must be pretty staggering. And yet nowhere in this story or in the posts of those who support Ms Wilkinson is the suggestion that the marital status of straight couples be established before they get a room. Would she get *any* customers?

    It’s the focus on homosexuality to the exclusion of all the other sexual sins likely to occur in a B&B that make me suspect that she – and you – are homophobes using Scripture, as Jim says, to cloak your prejudices.

  40. jenny Says:

    I have just fell upon this page quite by chance. I was actually googling the booze ban in Wales on Sundays due to religion but oh am I glad I did!
    Some great responses to the article in question….one thing always amazes me with the internet. The minorities who voice their negative opinions never voice them publically….because yes, you would also get the deserved hate mail that the owner of the BnB got. We are a tolerant society with beautiful diversity (most of us anyway) and we all have inate beliefs of sort but most do not wish to cause harm and suffering to others….having not read much of the bible I did always believe that faith and religion was about being a ‘good’ person and being a ‘caring’ and ‘forgiving’ person. How wrong I am?!

  41. Jane Says:

    Jenny, the philosophy of Jesus is one of love and joy. Unfortunately, it has become distorted by the churches, rather unworthy recipients of the philosophy, and by “Paulinity”, bigotry and exclusion. I understand completely your comment and share your sentiment.

  42. jenny Says:

    Now that is what I believe the bible to be about…..(@Jane)
    Love, peace and tolerance.
    You bigots take notice!!!!

  43. Jim Says:

    Brian,
    Of course you have the absolute right in an enlightened democracy to believe that homosexuality is a sin and, to say so. I for one have no evangelical need to “convert”you, provided you do not break the law, and that you treat your fellow humans with understanding and compassion.

    Interestingly there was only one mention of the word “hate” before your first post, and yet you use the word freely. Hatred is not an emotion I feel towards you, though I disagree with your views. I’m not even convinced that hate is an appropriate word to use in this context is it?

    I am left with the feeling that there remain elements of the major religions which advocate forms of morality that have no place in a sophistated compassionate society. Where’s the compassion, the tolerance, the desire to treat others and you would be treated yourself.

  44. Simon Says:

    Thank you Jenny, Jane, Sophie and Dr. Guthrie. As a gay man who turned against Christianity for obvious reasons you have restored my faith in the original message of Jesus Christ.

    Shame it has been hijacked by bigots.

  45. Jane Says:

    Simon, as a gay woman, I can understand the reasons for any gay person turning away from the Christianity of the churches. I have been there, for so long I repressed self-recognition and it took me years to separate out the “Paulinity” and the “Churchicity” from the original, wonderful message of Jesus. I now try to lead my life authentically and follow the philosophy of Jesus without seeking a church, it’s eighteen months since I even stepped foot inside one. Perhaps one day I shall find a church community true to that philosophy, perhaps not.
    Blessings, Jane.

  46. D AVE Says:

    I’m lesbian and gave up on my church, on my church council membership, on my theology degree

    Thank God in heaven (literally). Now just ut because they refuse to move along with your so called progressive ways of thinking – or they happen to have ‘old fashioned views’ is that any reason for the gay community to orchestrate some sort of campaign to publically humialte and destroy people? Stinks of a put up job to me (especially as the gormless Mr.Morgan just happens to be a libdem councilor) . Wonder what the response would have been if this couple had fallen foul of a Muslim owned B&B.

    ‘Gay Community’. What a misnomer that is, when whenever you dont get your own way, you start internet and phone campaigns to get good people ostracised.

    Spiteful and nasty. Shame on you.

  47. D AVE Says:

    jenny Says:

    March 23rd, 2010 at 5:32 pm
    I have just fell upon this page quite by chance. I was actually googling the booze ban in Wales on Sundays due to religion but oh am I glad I did!
    Some great responses to the article in question….one thing always amazes me with the internet. The minorities who voice their negative opinions never voice them publically….because yes, you would also get the deserved hate mail that the owner of the BnB got.

    So there you have it. If you dont agree with us ‘liberal progressive’ you will get it too. ( What a country we are living in nowadays.) Just because one refuses to compromise on ones religious or cultural beliefs, they get threatened with internet hate campaigns (Perhaps the police are investigating the wrong people after all) . And yes dear, it is a wonderful diverse society, which is why when it does all come down on you, it wont be from some nice well spoken, polite, white middleclass , Christian , married couple.

    That is our trouble, we are tolerant. TOO tolerant.
    Even of intolerant threatening bigots like some of you’s.

  48. Jane Says:

    Well, I’m not a “gay activist”, I don’t see myself as being a member of a “gay community”, neither have I participated in any campaign, although I understand why people would feel strongly enough to undertake one. It is not at all “spiteful and nasty” to combat bigotry, it’s necessary to do so. Neither would I regard the actions of the Wilkinsons as being those of “good people”. The only person being offensive and aggressive on this board is yourself. Had the two men been turned away from a Muslim-owned B&B, my attitude would have been the same. Still, I wouldn’t expect you to agree with any of this, not that that bothers me in the slightest.

  49. Sophie, Surrey Says:

    D AVE says “‘Gay Community’. What a misnomer that is, when whenever you dont get your own way, you start internet and phone campaigns to get good people ostracised.”

    Duh? Am I missing something? Who was ostracised? Who was humiliated? The two gay men, that’s who. How exactly do you think they set this landlady up?

    And it’s clearly escaped your notice that by no means all those who support them are gay themselves. I certainly am not.

    Incidentally, the paragraph I’ve quoted and the last one are the only ones in your post that make sense. Re-read what you’ve posted – the 2nd paragraph’s just gobbledigook.

    Be aware that omitting words and punctuation may give readers the unfortunate impression that the sender is frothing at the mouth.

  50. Dr. Robin Guthrie Says:

    Hypocrisy of Marital Relationships:

    So many Christians try to rationalize this but it is clear that a true follower of Jesus can neither divorce someone nor marry someone who is divorced.

    There is an exception to the rule, however.

    If spouse commits adultery, divorce is permissible.

    On the same token, the Bible also says that anyone who obtains a divorce and marries another is in adulterer.

    Remember that 80% of this country is Christian yet we have a 50% divorce rate.

    A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which implies that Christians are again practicing selective morality.

    How many Christians are working on a second, third or fourth marriage?

    1) “So they are no longer two but one flesh.

    What therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder” (Matthew 19:6 & Mark 10:9).

    2) “Whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery” (Matthew 5:32, 19:9 & Luke 16:18).

    3) “Whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery” (Matthew 5:32).

    4) “…whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her” (Mark 10:11 & Luke 16:18), which applies to women as well (Mark 10:12).

    Did this B&B owner ask their guests this.

    If not why not.

    Good Christians read their bible….

    Obviously not…

  51. Jim Says:

    D AVE: 2 questions for you:

    1. Are you truthfully the person you describe youself as being? I say this because your posts appear to betray you as quite another person.

    2. I urge you to re-read all the previous posts, and think again about your views of the contributors. Are we really intolerant bigots? Can you provide examples to illustrate this?

  52. Brian Hanson Says:

    Thank you Jim for your comments. I am sorry if anyone was offended by what I said. I was not trying to offend anyone in expressing my views, even referring to certain actions as “sin”. I too, am a sinner, saved only by the grace of Almighty God and not by my own works of righteousness, for I have none of which to boast. I freely admit that I am not free of sin in my own life and I am repenting to God as He convicts me of that sin and I am trusting in His grace (unmerited favor), until He strengthens me to overcome the weakness. I recognize that God is a God of love and forgiveness and that none of us could stand if He were to judge us according to our sins right now. I said this to let everyone know that I do not hate anyone for having a different set of weaknesses than my own. We all stand or fall before God on our own, not on the opinions of others.
    Thank you Jim, once again for your perspective.

  53. D AVE Says:

    Laws created by a democratically elected government.

    Laws created by unelected quangoes and diversity police.

    Live and let live. These people didnt HAVE to go to the newspapers, these people didnt HAVE to go the polce, these people dont HAVE to go for a prosecution (but no doubt they WILL).” ‘Gay Community” .
    ‘ Like I said – misnomer. Actually, I sometimes wonder just how proud and ‘glad to be gay’ some of the gay community really are. Judging by the actions of these two people and the words of the Stonewall Spokes person (Methinks you prosteteth too much). And please dont quote ‘the law’ at me about discrimination. You are not being discriminated against as there are lots and lots of B&Bs/Hotels willing to take gay couples and party swingers and whatever. No one really cares that much. It’s the same old, same old. “What can we do this week to remind people we’re still victims of nasty old homophobes”? Now what is that Stonewall slogal again:
    SOME PEOPLE ARE GAY. GET OVER IT.
    WELL , MOST PEOPLE ARE STRAIGHT. GET OVER THAT. Because if you think the way to turn the rest of the population is to witch hunt ‘homophobes’ and to out them on the net , thinking that you will shame and scare them out of existence, then friend, you are very sadly mistaken. Yes, there are laws, but when they conflict with peoples culture and/or religious beliefs, than you will get this sort of thing forever and not only from Christians. As some of you do like to keep reminding us: We live in a multicultural society now.

    More fool you.

  54. D AVE Says:

    Be aware that omitting words and punctuation may give readers the unfortunate impression that the sender is frothing at the mouth

    Be aware of Sophie the sophist.

  55. D AVE Says:

    couples using a B&B in today’s society who aren’t married (or at least not to each other) must be pretty staggering. And yet nowhere in this story or in the posts of those who support Ms Wilkinson is the suggestion that the marital status of straight couples be established before they get a room. Would she get *any* customers?

    Well maybe she’s in the wrong business then, and if she is, then it will be her look out , wont it. Otherwise what good does all these hate campaigns do. Because that’s what they amount to. Remember Jane Moir in the Daily Mail. And all that over what? What the hell is wrong with some people. The gay community nowadays have more rights and freedoms than the majority straights, and still you cant stop mixing it. Listen, try some of your own advice: Live and Let Live. And if you do meet a bigot – ignore.

    Simple innit.

  56. Dr Robin Guthrie Says:

    “The gay community nowadays have more rights and freedoms than the majority straights”

    Where.

    Prove it.

    “And if you do meet a bigot – ignore.”

    Quite difficult when said bigot is kicking your head in.

  57. Simon Says:

    Remember “No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs”?

    It’s amazing that in this day and age some people still want to get away with saying “No Gays”.

  58. Jenny Says:

    Dave says:

    So there you have it. If you dont agree with us ‘liberal progressive’ you will get it too. ( What a country we are living in nowadays.) Just because one refuses to compromise on ones religious or cultural beliefs, they get threatened with internet hate campaigns (Perhaps the police are investigating the wrong people after all) . And yes dear, it is a wonderful diverse society, which is why when it does all come down on you, it wont be from some nice well spoken, polite, white middleclass , Christian , married couple.

    That is our trouble, we are tolerant. TOO tolerant.
    Even of intolerant threatening bigots like some of you’s.

    I would like to apologise for using the word ‘hate’ as I find the word abhorent. But I would also like to add that ( and Dave you knew this was coming) you make the assumption that I am sending out a hate campaign online and that is not why I wrote on this particular blog. I wrote here because I could not fathom the way some people still believe it is acceptable to discriminate. I purposely will not tell people my sexuality on here as I think some of you are already assuming way too much. What I will say is that these middle class, white, chrsitian married couple who profess to do ‘gods work’ are shameful and yes the police are knocking on the right door! It is blatent…. ‘not in my back yard’ thinking here which is unnacceptable. You could knock on my door and I would not turn you away because of your views, I would simply try to understand and move forward with the situation. Everyone has a right to their beliefs. As I have an ability to see people for who they are not what they are ‘stamped’ with. I am not a practicing christian, more of a christian thinker and again I will say quite LOUDLY…this is not how I believed practicing christians to be.

  59. Jenny Says:

    @ Dave
    please could you refrain from calling me dear…..you do not know me and and you know it makes sense
    instigator of discrimination….and these are not laws, these are ways of thinking, oppression
    I do believe I could be stereotyped here for actually ‘biting back’!
    waits for the onslaught…………………

  60. Simon Says:

    So according to some people, if I speak out against modern day homophobia which is being justified by ancient religious texts, then that makes me a bigot.

  61. Dr Robin Guthrie Says:

    # Simon Says: March 24th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    “So according to some people, if I speak out against modern day homophobia which is being justified by ancient religious texts, then that makes me a bigot.”

    Nope.

    Not according to some people.

    But according to the Criminal Justice Act 2003.

    YES.

  62. Jane Says:

    Jenny, yes, treating others (whoever they are, irrespective of creed, colour, race, age, abilities, intellect, gender, sexuality, whatever) with decency and respect is what matters in any society. It’s no mystery, it’s almost the first tenet of Christian belief, expressed as, “Do unto others as You would have them do unto Yourself”. It’s without qualification. Sadly, many churches do prefer to qualify and exclude, propagating instead a shabby, shameful and shameless parody of what is essentially a truly wonderful philosophy. People such as Dave seem to believe that regurgitating the teachings of such churches is what being a Christian is all about.

  63. Simon Says:

    “Do unto others as You would have them do unto Yourself” is a basic human moral guide which transcends all religions, societies and time. It is one that has never failed me.

  64. Dr Robin Guthrie Says:

    Well said Simon….

  65. Jane Says:

    Yes, I agree it isn’t exclusive to Christianity, I was not claiming it is.

    Best wishes,
    Jane.

  66. Jenny Says:

    It is very very sad Jane and I applaud anyone who speaks out. As Dr Robin Guthrie has put it, there are laws though to hinder and challenge such forthright behaviour.
    I see no way forward in this debate and in 100 years time we will still be sitting here having to listen to this.
    My dad is a staunt athiest (each to their own as long as there is no suffering)) and was only mentioning the other day about how religion, especially those with extremist views can be very dangerous and how he worries and is scared by them. I answered that it is only the minority ones that do this and so not to be too bothered. I guess after reading some of the comments on here that he has a point.
    First….people using scriptures to deny access to others
    Next…..burn them!!
    I play it up somewhat but that is how I am feeling after reading some of these comments.
    I actually feel oppressed by some of these comments…bless the couple who suffered.

  67. Simon Says:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/03/25/christian-bb-owners-receive-support-from-gay-people/

  68. D AVE Says:

    Dr. Guthrie: Quite difficult when said bigot is kicking your head in.

    Oh yes, right, I see, so this ‘over zealous’ Christian’s couples next move would be to go out ‘queer bashing’ – would it.

    Ho hum.

    From the Mail.

    If you run a boarding house in 2010, at some stage you must expect a same-sex couple to check in for the night.
    So Susanne Wilkinson was wrong to turn away John Morgan and Michael Black from her B&B in Wokingham because homosexuality offends her devout Christian beliefs.
    After all, it’s not very Christian telling travellers there’s no room at the inn.

    Michael Black (left) and John Morgan were turned away from Susanne Wilkinson’s B&B because allowing a same-sex couple to stay was ‘against her convictions’
    Perhaps if her advert had emphasised ‘run by devout Christian’ (Rule one, No Poofters), John and Michael may have taken the hint and booked in somewhere else.
    Why stay where you’re not welcome? I certainly wouldn’t check into a temperance hotel.
    But this is where it gets out of hand. The police are now investigating Mrs Wilkinson and she’s been deluged with hate mail from homosexual fundamentalists.
    Threatening to burn someone’s house down isn’t very Christian either.
    Mrs Wilkinson was in the wrong. She’s probably in the wrong business.
    But prosecuting someone for holding sincere Christian convictions and making violent threats against her proves yet again that in New Labour’s Britain tolerance is a one-way street.

  69. Dr. Robin Guthrie Says:

    “Oh yes, right, I see, so this ‘over zealous’ Christian’s couples next move would be to go out ‘queer bashing’ – would it. ”

    Obviously not.

    But their continual homophobia stance only encourages other homophobia in general, which does result in gay bashing.

    I know.

    I’ve been at the sharp end of it. 2 weeks hospitalisation.

  70. Marian Says:

    A very late post ….

    I am a single woman, a Christian. I have been refused the opportunity to stay at some B&Bs because I am not married and my travelling companion was a woman. That was in the day when B&Bs could advertise their fear of homosexuality on their web-sites. I have even been unable to book into those B&Bs when travelling with my mother – “No same sex bookings”. Thank fully, I have never had to face the humiliation of being turned away at the door on arrival. That must be awful – to be rejected on a doorstep. Pre-judged by what the host thought you might do in the room, other than sleep. And left with no-where to sleep that night. Horrendous.

    It has been easier for me to book into a B&B with my boyfriend, even though I am not married to him. No questions asked.

    I feel very sorry for the treatment that gays and lesbians have had and continue to have by Christians who serve an extremely loving God who has forgiven us so much. We cannot judge others – in deed we are told not to.

    And as for the B&B owners – please also show them God’s mercy and love and some respect (even if you think they do not deserve it). As Jesus said from the cross – forgive them for they know not what they do. And I expect that they really do not understand the pain that they have caused. I am sure that that was not their intention. They are just scared of something that they perceive as being evil rather than seeing it as being loving.

    But I would also say that under the law they should be prosecuted. We get prosecuted for speeding, sometimes when we do not agree that we were doing anything wrong. The road law is there to protect all road users (cyclists, pedestrians, residents) not just car drivers. So the law on Equal Rights is there to protect all human beings, especially those most likely to have their rights violated by those who do not realise what they are doing.

    But please, can we respect each other, with all our different views and feelings.

  71. Jane Says:

    Marian, respect is to be earned, it isn’t due as a right. Saying that the Wilkinsons deserve respect is misguided. Did they “intend” to hurt these two men? I am sure they knew and know perfectly well that they would hurt them; they certainly didn’t care whether or not they hurt them, is that not equivalent to intent? Ought we to understand their “perception of evil”? No, no, no! That’s the first step to legitimising their bigotry, as well as the hatred which they are no doubt fed every week in their church. Respect their views?, Not when I and people like me are subject daily to abuse and hatred, sponsored and fomented by the likes of these “good Christians” and their churches.

  72. Jane Says:

    Marian, I’d even say that fighting against people like the Wilkinsons is perhaps bringing our world a small step closer to being a better world of the kind envisaged by that truly good person whose philosophy and ideals have been so cruelly hijacked, corrupted and deformed by most churches.

  73. D AVE Says:

    ‘Hello all! I was wondering if the debate was still ongoing. I have been away. Now wherever you think of me as some kind of crusader of Christian principles or some kind of angry ‘queer basher, I wish to say here, I am neither pro Christian or anti Gay. As it happens, I once worked for a pub chain and our manager was himself gay, and in all that time he served (about three years in all) we had to serve some of the most obnoxious people imaginable; young, old, and middle aged who would start insults and fights at the drop of a hat. Some of the toughest nuts on the block who would kick your teeth in merely for looking at them the wrong way (This was in a very rough part of west London). and yet even amongst the worst of them, including the racists and local football hooligans, I cannot honestly remember one homophobic remark aimed at the guy. Even though he was far from being some ‘closet.’ In fact not long after he took over we had a refurbishment and Gods honest truth he even had some of the pub done up pink. He was also a proud member of a boy band fan club (whose name escapes me now, but I do remember one of the band was gay –possibly Steven Gately’s band). What I’m trying to say here, is that where I am sure there is still homophobia in Britain it is often overplayed. For even when I was growing up in the 70s I cant remember many people, certainly not in my circles (and I grew up in a council block) having ill intents toward ‘queers’, as some called them back them. Because I think back then we had started to accept the gay lifestyle and gay people as some sort of cool thing, which was probably helped along by the ‘Disco’ music scene and bands like Abba and the so called sexually ambiguous ‘glam bands’. In fact my sister used to go to some of the gay west end discos at this time which were becoming very popular back then and once or twice brought a few of her gaty man friends home for drinks and music. One turned out to be rather predatory toward me in a rather unpleasant way ( I was a young teenager at this time and not bad looking – even if I do say so myself), but it didn’t make me ‘homophobic’. And what I’m trying to come to is this: we have to be very wary of some of these lobbyists groups like Stonewall and being one of these ‘victims’ just happened to be lib-dem councilor makes me very suspicious indeed. Also we must be wary that some of these minority groups, in their own crusades for rights aren’t deliberately going out their way to target Christians so they can get public outrage and the attention they seek to enact some kind of ugly y retribution on people like these two unfortunate hotel owners.
    Some gay militants also happen to be very aware of how unsympathetic the govt. is to the Christian Church right now.

    Or what sort of country are we living in nowadays where you can lose your livelihood merely for expressing your still deeply held religious beliefs. What you must also remember is that this generation was raised in a world where the word ‘gay’ meant something else entirely and homosexuality had largely been decreed a deviancy and crime, which back in their day could get one arrested and/or imprisoned. Certainly ruined on a professional level. So why would you want to see this happen to anyone else. Why not just wait until the old fogies (like ‘us’) die off and then you can have your world without anyone around old enough to remember when such things were considered ‘wrong ‘ – illegal’ or up to very recently (according to the W.H.O.) a mental illness. For which now of cours,e we all know better. It is the bigots who are mentally ill; especially the Caucasian Christians.

    Apologise for any grammtical errors or spelling mistakes in advance.

    Now I will leave you with this, the latest utterance of the ‘Stonewall’ spokesperson.

    The legal position is perfectly clear,’ Mr Summerskill (OF STONEWALL) told The Observer. ‘If you are going to offer the public a commercial service – and B&Bs are a commercial service – then people cannot be refused that service on the grounds of sexuality.

    ‘I don’t think anyone, including the Tories, wants to go back to the days where there is a sign outside saying: “No gays, no blacks, no Irish”.’

    So Mr; Summerskill, whenever in Britain did we have signs saying ‘No Gays’? We didn’t. The word wasn’t even invented back then. So stop trying to make a case for yourself.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1263445/Chris-Grayling-Tory-backing-ban-gays-revealed-secret-tape.html#ixzz0k80HCYeg

    Have a lovely Easter all.

  74. Nick Says:

    No Dave, we won’t “just wait until the old fogies (like ‘us’) die off and then you can have your world without anyone around old enough to remember when such things were considered ‘wrong’”

    Give me a good reqason why we should? You have had your life, free to be who you want to be. Lived through rose tinted spectacles by your own accounts. You don’t recall any discrimination to a gay guy you briefly knew and your sister went to gay discos, so all is ok with the world in your reckoning.

    The reality is different and I don’t plan on waiting for bigots to die off before I get treated the same as everyone else. Bigotry often breeds bigotry, so it needs to be challenged.

    If we put the boot on the other foot and this B&B had refused you a room on the assumption that as an oldie you’d piss the bed, you’d be none too happy and I reckon would see it as unjustified discrimination and want something done about it.

  75. Sinita Says:

    An invitation to stay at a B&B can be declined at any time. Having threats against them is a disgrace from the gay supporters. I will invite or refuse whoever I wish to my home. I have a brother who is gay but they will not share a bed in my housebecause I do not like their sexual behaviour as they have explained in full detail – my choice . If the 2 men did not like the look of the B&B or thought it was dirty, noisy or any other reason – then they too have the choice not to stay -they need to grow up rather than run to the authorities who have better things to attend to with time and out tax paying monies.

  76. Dr. Robin Guthrie Says:

    Sinita Says:
    April 4th, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    Excuse me Sinita.

    It is no longer their home when they charge for accommodation.

    It is a business. Full stop.

    And under UK law as introduced by the democratically elected government , they are subject to all health and safety, and discrimination laws.

    Given that you fuss about the “tax paying monies”, I as a gay man pay £56,000 in taxes and I expect the same RIGHTS as everyone else.

    What do you pay?

    What treatment do you expect in life?

    Would you like to be turned away from a BUSINESS purely due to your sexual preference.

  77. Paul Stanton Says:

    As usual, a few militant “we speak for all gay people!” activists are making a mountain out of nothing, and giving the rest of us a bad name. This B&B is run by deeply religious people (whether you think they are narrow minded bigots or not, it’s their views and their house). So what if we can’t stay there? For goodness sakes….. There are thousands of other B&Bs in this country which will take our pink pounds!

  78. bibi Says:

    Leave christians alone. Muslims are dissing gays day and night but u cowards are too scared to approach them. If one is gay then y force a faith thats been ther for milleniums to change, join one that accepts you, for the same reasons people become muslims. budhists, hindus etc. Lesbians and homosexual men: the God of the bible loves you and would like to deliver you!!! U cant change Him watever u do(sory Jane). That same equality rights also protects the rights of faith groups as well. Same thing happened last year and they wer acquited. We hav confused lawmakers whose laws hav led to uncontrollable, distructive youth. Laws to control laws, laws for xmas, c’mon. Men

  79. bibi Says:

    Ca I just add that most ‘christians’ are not saved. U can not be a christia and be a homosexual. The day I got born again the desire for masterbation and ponography and all the other staff I was doing left immediately, and I was on my own in a conservatory at work. Ezekiel 36 v 26-29 came alive in my life, I had a new heart and a new spirit. I only asked Jesus that if He was there then He should show Himself to me. If you think u r a christian and yo desires havt changed, then ask Jesus to come into your life, He will prove Himself alive and faithfull

  80. sign Says:

    o my what a ponitless waste of people time and i do not care what anyone says this is a waste of time ive just wasted 4 hours of my life reading to forums were people just harp on back to the same ponit and do not look at the facts ok im not gay im male and 32 years old i have gay friends and also religions friends they both have there views on this and i will not excepte it the law because there laws for everything these days and when it really comes down to it about common sense (which you see less of theses days) and respect (yet again what you see less of these days) we are all lucky we here and that at any ponit are life could change so stop bitching and learn to live with people that aim at both sides you will get people with strong religious views and people who are gay learn to live with it if you do not like people views do not spend time around them i also love it when people come on these forums start bitching about stuff that they have even taken the time to read every thing they just make a instant judgement wile reading the headline o bollocks i cant be even asked to go on

  81. Jane Says:

    Bibi, from what I can make out from your message (have you heard of SpellCheck?), you’re displaying symptoms of paranoia. “Leave Christians alone”? (Shakes head and decides it would be pointless to even attempt to reason with this one…………….).

  82. D AVE Says:

    Almost gone viral this topic. I wonder how the poor oppressed gay couple feel now. And what do you Gay Rights folkies feel about these points (being made here by Littlejohn – unfortunate name that in the circs)?

    ” I am reliably informed there are gays-only boarding houses which exclude heterosexuals, but I have yet to hear of one being prosecuted for operating such a policy.”

    “I don’t believe ‘post-dusk social networking’ in public toilets is a way to behave and think that adoptive children should be placed with a man and a woman wherever possible.”

    RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: The hypocrisy of the Left’s hate-mongers …5 Apr 2010 … Chris Grayling’s comments arose out of a story which this column carried last week about a B&B in Wokingham run by a devout Christian, …
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/…/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-The-hypocrisy-Lefts-hate-mongers.html – 15 hours ago

    Rowan Williams, Chris Grayling, homophobia and synthetic outrage …Rowan Williams, Chris Grayling, homophobia and synthetic outrage. By Daniel Hannan Politics Last updated: April 4th, 2010. 105 Comments Comment on this …
    blogs.telegraph.co.uk/…/danielhannan/…/rowan-williams-chris-grayling-homophobia-and-synthetic-outrage/ – Cached

    Ban bigoted old B&B owners from gay clubs, too – Telegraph BlogsBan bigoted old B&B owners from gay clubs, too on Apr 4th, 2010 at 4:49 pm … only polite not to slam the door in my face when I rock up asking for a baby. …
    blogs.telegraph.co.uk/…/ban-bigoted-old-bb-owners-from-gay-clubs-too/ – Cached

    And Nick, you sound like another angry young man looking for a cause. Possibly too much time on your hands – need a job? Come and me (I run a bar). As for having my world, fortunately for you it was my generation which helped fight for many of the rights you young whippernappers take for granted today. As for the res tof your rant, you really need to sit back and think where you’re going with this. Because you’re way off track.

  83. D AVE Says:

    Well said Mr. Stanton. I had no intentions of coming on here haviing a dig at gay people. In fact one of my points was, if these Stonewall people are really so glad and proud to be gay , then heck, just why do they feel the need to go on so.

    We are all at some time in our lives the victims of bullies and/or prejudice.

  84. D AVE Says:

    Some laws need to be questioned – and where neccesary, challenged, especially where they are deliberately being evoked to cause schisms within our mult-faith and multicultural society. Unfortuntaly much of what you call ‘Law’ these days was not given mandate or even made by properly elected Members of Parliment. Such as it is we need to question the reasoning behind certain of them; especially when it comes to stamping on other peoples rights or used to stir up other forms of msichief and hatred.

    Eh, Dr. Robin Guthrie.

  85. D AVE Says:

    Jane: Not when I and people like me are subject daily to abuse and hatred, sponsored and fomented by the likes of these “good Christians” and their churches.

    So, Jane, care to tel me about people like ‘you’ and what sort of abuse it is you’re being subject to on a daily level? Cause I’m sure it’s another load of old tosh. After all (and if you’re implying you’re gay), I’m sure for all that you look much the same as anyone else of your sex/kind. So how exactly are they subjecting you ro abuse ‘on a daily level’ ?

    Jeeze. Synthetic outrage is about right.
    I bet you dont even know you’re born.

  86. Jane Says:

    You get there in the end, Dave!
    Yes, we are the same as everyone else.
    Now if only Christians would realise
    that there’s more in the world,
    more to life than an incessant
    interest in SEX, or at least
    other people’s sex lives.
    Get over it, Dave,
    I’m not in the slightest bit interested
    in what you do (or don’t do)
    with your genitals….
    so it’s no business of yours
    what other people do,
    nor is it any business of you or of
    people like the Wilkinsons
    to be making so-called “moral” judgements
    about other people.
    Christians and the churches
    had an elevated position in Western societies,
    most people have now seen through that.
    Get used to it.

  87. Neil Says:

    It’s plain and simple, if this ‘Christian’ woman is opposed to gays then she should stay locked behind her door and keep away from our diverse society – don’t open your house as a B&B if you’re a biggot/fascist/racist intolerant person, then it won’t be an issue.
    Take a look at the website – it says a ‘warm and friendly welcome’ nowhere does it say ‘except for faggots’
    http://www.swissbedandbreakfast.co.uk/
    She should make her policy clear for people to see, not to wait for them to turn up before treating them like lepers and turning them away. How very ‘Christian’ indeed.
    How sad that people mask their own ignorance and personal views behind religion – God gave you a brain and a mind of your own, don’t twist the words of the Bible to cover your own reprehensible views.

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