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	<title>Comments on: Should the bishops be evicted from the House of Lords? A parliamentary debate on the future of the Lords Spiritual</title>
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	<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2010/01/06/bishops-evicted-house-lords-parliamentary-debate-future-lords-spiritual/</link>
	<description>I am not out of my mind, most excellent Festus, but I utter words of sober truth.</description>
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		<title>By: Webmaster</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2010/01/06/bishops-evicted-house-lords-parliamentary-debate-future-lords-spiritual/comment-page-1/#comment-12381</link>
		<dc:creator>Webmaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/?p=10288#comment-12381</guid>
		<description>Well in many respects, since the beginning of my &#039;paradigm shift&#039; I too have been sourcing non-Christian minds who are opposed to fascisim, the far right and in particular the BNP. So I&#039;m not really in a good position to cast stones currently.

I am impressed with your comments and wish that I had seen more of this sort of thing communicated, so that we could better understand your motivations and strategies and then not jump to conclusions based on associations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well in many respects, since the beginning of my &#8216;paradigm shift&#8217; I too have been sourcing non-Christian minds who are opposed to fascisim, the far right and in particular the BNP. So I&#8217;m not really in a good position to cast stones currently.</p>
<p>I am impressed with your comments and wish that I had seen more of this sort of thing communicated, so that we could better understand your motivations and strategies and then not jump to conclusions based on associations.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Bartley</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2010/01/06/bishops-evicted-house-lords-parliamentary-debate-future-lords-spiritual/comment-page-1/#comment-12378</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Bartley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/?p=10288#comment-12378</guid>
		<description>It would be good to dialogue some more on this, and that you for your kind words.  

I am not aware that I have &quot;joined forces&quot; with anyone. I am however prepared to work with people where I believe they are working with, and toward truth.  

I do not drive a wedge between sacred and secular and believe that all people who are made in God&#039;s image, have a sense of what is right and wrong.   I do not agree with humanists on many things, but where I see them working for justice and equality, which are to me eternal Christian values which resonate with the character of God, and they know what they are because of God (whether they recognise it or not) I will encourage them in that, and debate and discuss with them. 

 Can you elaborate a bit on your specific concerns so I can understand them better?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be good to dialogue some more on this, and that you for your kind words.  </p>
<p>I am not aware that I have &#8220;joined forces&#8221; with anyone. I am however prepared to work with people where I believe they are working with, and toward truth.  </p>
<p>I do not drive a wedge between sacred and secular and believe that all people who are made in God&#8217;s image, have a sense of what is right and wrong.   I do not agree with humanists on many things, but where I see them working for justice and equality, which are to me eternal Christian values which resonate with the character of God, and they know what they are because of God (whether they recognise it or not) I will encourage them in that, and debate and discuss with them. </p>
<p> Can you elaborate a bit on your specific concerns so I can understand them better?</p>
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		<title>By: Webmaster</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2010/01/06/bishops-evicted-house-lords-parliamentary-debate-future-lords-spiritual/comment-page-1/#comment-12354</link>
		<dc:creator>Webmaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/?p=10288#comment-12354</guid>
		<description>Thank you for taking the time to comment Jonathan, you are welcome here any time.

&lt;i&gt;My question to you would simply be, if Jesus were here today, would he support special privileges for religious people in Parliament? He certainly didn’t in the Gospels.&lt;/i&gt;

You might be surprised to learn this, but I will happily admit that I have been giving issues such as these, considerable thought and am experiencing a &#039;paradigm shift&#039; which is both confusing and exciting.

I am particularly concerned with Christians using a priviledged position to extract &#039;special excemptions&#039; under the label of &#039;freedom&#039; and &#039;rights&#039; and then watch these same groups attempt to deny others the same rights.

As for the tone, of course I apologise, but by way of explanation, it saddens me terribly to watch such an influential figure as you, join forces with groups that are actively opposed to Christianity, such as the humanists. 

I also knotched it up a level because I had been asked by the organisers to create some exposure for the event. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for taking the time to comment Jonathan, you are welcome here any time.</p>
<p><i>My question to you would simply be, if Jesus were here today, would he support special privileges for religious people in Parliament? He certainly didn’t in the Gospels.</i></p>
<p>You might be surprised to learn this, but I will happily admit that I have been giving issues such as these, considerable thought and am experiencing a &#8216;paradigm shift&#8217; which is both confusing and exciting.</p>
<p>I am particularly concerned with Christians using a priviledged position to extract &#8216;special excemptions&#8217; under the label of &#8216;freedom&#8217; and &#8216;rights&#8217; and then watch these same groups attempt to deny others the same rights.</p>
<p>As for the tone, of course I apologise, but by way of explanation, it saddens me terribly to watch such an influential figure as you, join forces with groups that are actively opposed to Christianity, such as the humanists. </p>
<p>I also knotched it up a level because I had been asked by the organisers to create some exposure for the event. <img src='http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Bartley</title>
		<link>http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2010/01/06/bishops-evicted-house-lords-parliamentary-debate-future-lords-spiritual/comment-page-1/#comment-12337</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Bartley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/?p=10288#comment-12337</guid>
		<description>Just wanted to offer a few comments if I may,  as I am sure we both share a commitment to truth-telling.

Firstly the title of the debate was &quot;Evict the bishops?&quot; (with a question mark) which I think we would both agree is a fair question for discussion. The only reason that there isn&#039;t a question mark in the url of the website, is that you can&#039;t have one in a web address.

Secondly,  what you may see as &quot;attacking Christianity from within&quot; others may see as following Jesus Christ.   Bishops in the House of Lords supported slavery whilst others, on the margins of the church, called for the abolition of slavery for example.   The evangelicals of the eighteenth century were locked out of churches and considered a threat to Christian morality.  Similarly, many wonderful Christians have been attacked and killed by the churches down the centuries. 

My question to you would simply be, if Jesus were here today, would he support special privileges for religious people in Parliament?  He certainly didn&#039;t in the Gospels.

The last comment I wanted to make concerns some of the language you have used.  In 1 Cor 3 the Apostle Paul lists &quot;party spirit&quot; alongside, &quot;back-biting&quot; as something the church should avoid and again in Galatians he mentions it alongside idolatry.  I would hope that in genuine disagreements, as Christians we didn&#039;t feel the need to resort to those kinds of comments about one another.   And if we did, it would cause us to reflect on why we were doing it, and whether this really displays the fruit of the spirit?

With best wishes,

Jonathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wanted to offer a few comments if I may,  as I am sure we both share a commitment to truth-telling.</p>
<p>Firstly the title of the debate was &#8220;Evict the bishops?&#8221; (with a question mark) which I think we would both agree is a fair question for discussion. The only reason that there isn&#8217;t a question mark in the url of the website, is that you can&#8217;t have one in a web address.</p>
<p>Secondly,  what you may see as &#8220;attacking Christianity from within&#8221; others may see as following Jesus Christ.   Bishops in the House of Lords supported slavery whilst others, on the margins of the church, called for the abolition of slavery for example.   The evangelicals of the eighteenth century were locked out of churches and considered a threat to Christian morality.  Similarly, many wonderful Christians have been attacked and killed by the churches down the centuries. </p>
<p>My question to you would simply be, if Jesus were here today, would he support special privileges for religious people in Parliament?  He certainly didn&#8217;t in the Gospels.</p>
<p>The last comment I wanted to make concerns some of the language you have used.  In 1 Cor 3 the Apostle Paul lists &#8220;party spirit&#8221; alongside, &#8220;back-biting&#8221; as something the church should avoid and again in Galatians he mentions it alongside idolatry.  I would hope that in genuine disagreements, as Christians we didn&#8217;t feel the need to resort to those kinds of comments about one another.   And if we did, it would cause us to reflect on why we were doing it, and whether this really displays the fruit of the spirit?</p>
<p>With best wishes,</p>
<p>Jonathan</p>
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