Should the bishops be evicted from the House of Lords? A parliamentary debate on the future of the Lords Spiritual
I have been asked if I would post something about an upcoming debate relating to the issue of the existence of Bishops within the House of Lords, so I thought, why not.
The event is being held at the Houses of Parliament at 7.30pm on 27th January and click this link if you want tickets or further info:-
Tickets are free and open to the public.
Arguing that Bishops should be evicted from the House of Lords is Polly Toynbee, President of the British Humanist Association; and unbelievably (or not) supporting the humanist position is Jonathan Bartley, Co-director, Ekklesia (That’s the cue to boo and hiss).
Arguing that Bishops should remain in the House of Lords is The Rt Revd Tim Stevens, Bishop of Leicester and Convenor of the Lords Spiritual; and Rt Hon Baroness Elizabeth Butler-Sloss.
Now judging by the name of the website (“Evict the Bishops”) and the fact that this is being hosted by Labour Humanists, I think I can tell which way this debate is leaning already, oh and of course the fact that Jonathan Bartley is a debator is quite revealing, as he is very prolific at attacking Christianity from within.
Here is a little snippet from the website to give you a taster:-
The UK is the only Western democracy that has clerics in its parliament as of right. With reform of the House of Lords currently a hot topic, Labour Humanists are hosting an open debate on whether it is time to evict the ”Lords Spiritual.”
Is their presence in the House of Lords unsupportable in a country where less than half of the people belong to Christianity, far less, the Church of England? Those opposed would point out these clerics are all men, they are unrepresentative and – despite their claims – they have no special insight or universally accepted morality to bring to the debate. They also point out that this is unfair on those of other faiths, and those of no faith. If we are to have religious leaders in our legislature, then should we not also have Islamic, Jewish, Sikh and Scientologist leaders in there too, by right?
Yet their supporters would say that as non-aligned members, their activities in the Upper House are not subject to a whip, and can be a force for good. Their presence in the Lords, supporters claim, is an extension of their general vocation as bishops to preach God’s word and to lead people in prayer. Bishops provide an important independent voice, and spiritual insight to the work of the Upper House; and are a voice for all people of faith, not just Christians.
Join us for a vigourous debate!
Should be an interesting one as long as this debate attracts enough attention and support from folks who agree with Bishops remaining in the House of Lords.
If you have stumbled onto this blog and are not a Christian, get yourself a hot drink, pull up a comfy chair and then tuck into the following article written by one of the best in the business:- All Of Grace by Charles Spurgeon
Tags: Christianity, Politics
February 2nd, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Just wanted to offer a few comments if I may, as I am sure we both share a commitment to truth-telling.
Firstly the title of the debate was “Evict the bishops?” (with a question mark) which I think we would both agree is a fair question for discussion. The only reason that there isn’t a question mark in the url of the website, is that you can’t have one in a web address.
Secondly, what you may see as “attacking Christianity from within” others may see as following Jesus Christ. Bishops in the House of Lords supported slavery whilst others, on the margins of the church, called for the abolition of slavery for example. The evangelicals of the eighteenth century were locked out of churches and considered a threat to Christian morality. Similarly, many wonderful Christians have been attacked and killed by the churches down the centuries.
My question to you would simply be, if Jesus were here today, would he support special privileges for religious people in Parliament? He certainly didn’t in the Gospels.
The last comment I wanted to make concerns some of the language you have used. In 1 Cor 3 the Apostle Paul lists “party spirit” alongside, “back-biting” as something the church should avoid and again in Galatians he mentions it alongside idolatry. I would hope that in genuine disagreements, as Christians we didn’t feel the need to resort to those kinds of comments about one another. And if we did, it would cause us to reflect on why we were doing it, and whether this really displays the fruit of the spirit?
With best wishes,
Jonathan
February 2nd, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Thank you for taking the time to comment Jonathan, you are welcome here any time.
My question to you would simply be, if Jesus were here today, would he support special privileges for religious people in Parliament? He certainly didn’t in the Gospels.
You might be surprised to learn this, but I will happily admit that I have been giving issues such as these, considerable thought and am experiencing a ‘paradigm shift’ which is both confusing and exciting.
I am particularly concerned with Christians using a priviledged position to extract ‘special excemptions’ under the label of ‘freedom’ and ‘rights’ and then watch these same groups attempt to deny others the same rights.
As for the tone, of course I apologise, but by way of explanation, it saddens me terribly to watch such an influential figure as you, join forces with groups that are actively opposed to Christianity, such as the humanists.
I also knotched it up a level because I had been asked by the organisers to create some exposure for the event.
February 2nd, 2010 at 5:01 pm
It would be good to dialogue some more on this, and that you for your kind words.
I am not aware that I have “joined forces” with anyone. I am however prepared to work with people where I believe they are working with, and toward truth.
I do not drive a wedge between sacred and secular and believe that all people who are made in God’s image, have a sense of what is right and wrong. I do not agree with humanists on many things, but where I see them working for justice and equality, which are to me eternal Christian values which resonate with the character of God, and they know what they are because of God (whether they recognise it or not) I will encourage them in that, and debate and discuss with them.
Can you elaborate a bit on your specific concerns so I can understand them better?
February 2nd, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Well in many respects, since the beginning of my ‘paradigm shift’ I too have been sourcing non-Christian minds who are opposed to fascisim, the far right and in particular the BNP. So I’m not really in a good position to cast stones currently.
I am impressed with your comments and wish that I had seen more of this sort of thing communicated, so that we could better understand your motivations and strategies and then not jump to conclusions based on associations.