The Taliban can be admired for their conviction to their faith and their sense of loyalty to one another, the new bishop for the Armed Forces Rt Rev Stephen Venner has claimed.
The new Bishop of the armed forces, The Rt Rev Stephen Venner:-
…..has called for a more sympathetic approach to the Islamic fundamentalists that recognises their humanity.
Even though they today blew up a girls’ school in Pakistan…..(473 to date).
Presumably we should also be sympathetic to the Islamic fundamentalists treatment of women and girls?
The good Bishop goes on to say:-
….that the Taliban should be admired for their conviction to their faith and their sense of loyalty to each other.
Yes let’s all stand in admiration as they decimate, persecute and destroy communities that have a different faith and religion to them. Perhaps we should also admire criminal gangs for their sense of loyalty to one another, as they impose their will through the use of terror and intimidation.
Utter madness! I bet the troops who are bravely fighting literally to the death against the Taliban (including Muslims I might add), won’t appreciate these foolish comments.
The Taliban can be admired for their conviction to their faith and their sense of loyalty to one another, the new bishop for the Armed Forces has claimed.
The Rt Rev Stephen Venner called for a more sympathetic approach to the Islamic fundamentalists that recognises their humanity.
The Church of England’s Bishop to the Forces warned that it will be harder to reach a peaceful solution to the war if the Afghan insurgents are portrayed too negatively.
His comments came as the Prime Minister visited Afghanistan and warned that the Taliban was fighting a “guerilla war” aimed at causing “maximum damage”. Gordon Brown said soldiers were discovering improvised explosive devices every two hours….
Bishop Venner stressed his admiration for the sacrifices made by the British forces fighting in Afghanistan but also urged the need for a reassessment of how the Taliban are viewed.
“We’ve been too simplistic in our attitude towards the Taliban,” said Bishop Venner, who was recently commissioned in his new role by Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury.
“There’s a large number of things that the Taliban say and stand for which none of us in the west could approve, but simply to say therefore that everything they do is bad is not helping the situation because it’s not honest really.
“The Taliban can perhaps be admired for their conviction to their faith and their sense of loyalty to each other.”
Besides their attacks on the armed forces, the Taliban have also been responsible for public beatings, amputations and executions and have launched bomb attacks on the civilian population in Afghanistan.
They often refer to foreign forces as “Crusaders” in an echo of the religious wars of the Middle Ages….
Perhaps the Good Bishop Stephen Venner, would like to take a few moments to read this excellent article from the Diplomat today, for some education in reality:-
This is what Damian Thompson had to say about these comments from the The Rt Rev Stephen Venner:-
Here’s my adaptation of part of the report by my colleagues Jonathan Wynne-Jones and Duncan Gardham, in which I have tinkered with a couple of words:
Bishop Venner stressed his admiration for the sacrifices made by the Allied forces fighting in Europe but also urged the need for a reassessment of how the Nazis are viewed.
“We’ve been too simplistic in our attitude towards the Nazis,” said Bishop Venner, who was recently commissioned in his new role by Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury.
“There’s a large number of things that the Nazis say and stand for which none of us in Britain could approve, but simply to say therefore that everything they do is bad is not helping the situation because it’s not honest really.
“The Nazis can perhaps be admired for their conviction to their faith and their sense of loyalty to each other.”
Unfair? Maybe. But what a prat.
Bloomin’ right!
If you have stumbled onto this blog and are not a Christian, get yourself a hot drink, pull up a comfy chair and then tuck into the following article written by one of the best in the business:- All Of Grace by Charles Spurgeon
Tags: News
December 14th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
I’ve just seen this article from the BBC:-
Naive! What an understatement!
December 14th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Hi Pew Sitter, even the Church of England have rushed to damage limitation. They have just released a statement from Rt Revd Stephen Venner, Bishop to the Forces:-
http://www.cofe.anglican.org/news/bpstephenstatement.html
December 14th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Prof Barry Rubin has covered this one as well on his blog:-
Britain’s Top Military Chaplain Says We Must Recognize the Good Things about the Afghan Taliban
We’re getting used to it by now, the bizarre inability to recognize evil, the cultural relativism that excuses real political and war crimes, and the lack of faith by Westerners in their own civilization and religion. Yet each strange juxtapositions never fail to shock those who still remember the way things are supposed to be, and must be if the forces of dictatorship and repression are going to be beaten.
Sound too strong? Consider this new development. The Anglican Church’s chief chaplain with the British army is praising the Afghani Taliban. The UK foreign minister just wants to make a deal with some of these collaborators with al-Qaida who enabled the September 11 attack and are among the world’s leading totalitarians.
The Right Reverend Stephen Venner, recently appointed by Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams– who himself favors Muslims in the UK living under Islamic Sharia law–said that while some of the Taliban’s methods are unacceptable, it is unhelpful to paint them as too evil in what is really “a very complex situation.”
It isn’t helpful to demonize Venner by exaggerating what he meant. Venner is not being an apologist for everything the Taliban has done nor does he want them to take over Afghanistan. Nevertheless, his misunderstanding reflects the dangerous incomprehension all too common in the West. What he really wants to do is to win over elements in the Taliban by being nice to them, then getting them to participate in creating a stable, moderate Afghanistan. That’s just about the same thing as British government policy and perhaps U.S. government policy.
But here’s where the problems begin. Of course, in the Taliban as in other radical movements—including fascism and Communism—there are people who get caught up for personal or local reasons who might well break away under such conditions.
Yet those conditions are not the movement’s enemies being nice to it. There are two ways such a “break away” can happen. First, they can realize that the movement to which they have dedicated and even risked their lives is bad. Or they can conclude that it is being defeated and it’s time to change sides. This principle applies as well to al-Qaida, Muslim Brotherhoods, Hamas, Hizballah, the Iranian and Syrian regimes, as well as many other such ideologies and movements.
The problem with the Venner approach is by spreading a veneer of respectability about vicious tyrannical terrorists, it flatters rather than exposes and breaks their ideology. At the same time, making generous offers of forgiveness and participation assures them that they aren’t going to be defeated. In other words, the venerable Venners of the world ensure that the Taliban’s supporters will stick with the group or, even worse, help them get into power.
Regarding the flattery aspect, Venner quickly starts talking about the “good” side of the Taliban:
“There’s a large number of things that the Taliban say and stand for which none of us in the West could approve, but simply to say therefore that everything they do is bad is not helping the situation because it’s not honest really. The Taliban can perhaps be admired for their conviction to their faith and their sense of loyalty to each other.”
But a group like the Taliban isn’t just a mix of nice and nasty things but rather a holistic ideology about the will of the deity, the nature of life, and the proper direction for society. People like Venner—quite numerous among Western clergy, academics, journalists, and politicians—simply cannot understand such an approach because they no longer believe in a coherent doctrine of their own.
Let’s put it bluntly: They want to kill you. If possible they would destroy your liberties and way of life but more likely they will just settle for bloody oppression of their own people.
The UK government’s line, which the U.S. government is hinting at accepting, is that the Taliban or at least what are called “moderate elements” in it must be brought into Afghanistan’s government. Foreign Minister David Miliband wants to buy them off with the promise that they will sit in the Afghan parliament in future.
Let me explain it to you: Do you think of Taliban types went into the government they would be transformed into nice moderate guys who just want to have peace and get along with everyone?
Again, if someone were to defect and turn against the Taliban then of course they could change sides. But the idea of bringing radical Islamists into government and then expect stability or moderation is quite foolish as they will still be compelled to seize state power, transform their societies into something even worse, and make war on the West.
Colonel Richard Kemp, who served in Afghanistan and retains a sense of reality, explained things that should be too obvious to need explanation, regarding this naiveté:
“Their central creed and ethos is about violent oppression which comes from a politics of extreme religion that has very little to commend it in terms that we would recognize or appreciate. In many ways it is a mistake to compare their faith of extreme holy war with the kind of religion of peace and understanding that the bishop follows. They certainly wouldn’t show understanding of his faith.”
In fact, they’d call him a Crusader and cut off his head.
One might add to that massacres; amputations; terrorism; a genocidal hatred toward the West, Christians, and Jews; and the reduction of women to slavery.
People used to make fun of those fooled by Communism or the Nazis but in many circles such lessons have been forgotten. Ironically the apologists for the world’s most reactionary and tyrannical forces are usually found among people who consider themselves progressives. The same people are often notoriously less empathetic when it comes to the United States or Israel, in whom they often appear to see far less good than in Islamist extremists.
Yet the West’s problem today is not that it is too unsympathetic to its enemies and too assertive about its own beliefs. Quite the contrary.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
This raises a deeper philosophical problem than either the bishop or his critics realize. Should anyone be admired for loyalty and sacrifice to an ignoble cause? You can be mistaken – however
“Utlub il ‘ilma wa law fis-Sin” in Arabic. Seek ye knowledge even unto China. The Sunni, and the Taliban call themselves Sunni, are enjoined to seek a correct position. The Catholic Church says we must follow our consciences. However it is our duty to inform our consciences. The Sunni has a similar duty, expressed slightly differently.
The Taliban specifically are led by a group of people who are largely interested in their own power. They are not interested in the Qur’an or the Hadiths.
It seems to me surprising that a bishop does not speak of the duty of informing ones conscience.