Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang of Aintree in Liverpool are being prosecuted for a “religiously aggravated” public order offence. Police arrested the couple, who run the Bounty House Hotel in Liverpool, after a female Muslim hotel guest complained that she was offended
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The following comes from the Christian Institute
Trial begins of Christians who criticised Islam
The criminal trial of a Christian couple charged with a public order offence for criticising Islam begins today.
Last night hundreds of Christians gathered to pray about the case, concerned about its implications for free speech and religious liberty. A protest is expected to take place outside the court today.
Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang of Aintree in Liverpool are being prosecuted for a “religiously aggravated” public order offence. The trial, which is scheduled to last for two days, is being heard at Liverpool Magistrates’ Court.
Police arrested the couple, who run the Bounty House Hotel in Liverpool, after a female Muslim hotel guest complained that she was offended by comments made on 20 March.
According to newspaper reports, the debate involved discussion of whether Jesus was the Son of God or just a minor prophet of Islam.
Newspapers also report that the debate included comments that Mohammed was a warlord and Muslim dress for women was a form of bondage.
However, the facts of the case are disputed.
A major client of the couple’s hotel has ceased referring guests because of the allegations. This has led to a 80 per cent drop in the hotel’s income, leaving the couple in financial difficulty.
The Christian Institute is funding the Vogelenzangs’ legal defence. Its spokesman, Mike Judge, said: “We believe there are significant free speech and religious liberty issues at stake.”
The couple’s lawyer, David Whiting, said in September: “Ben and Sharon do not accept they were threatening, abusive or insulting.
“They are committed Christians and it is the defence’s contention that they have every right to defend their religious beliefs and explain those beliefs to others who do not hold similar views.”
The couple were arrested and charged in July under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 and Section 31(1)(c) and (5) of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998.
If you have stumbled onto this blog and are not a Christian, get yourself a hot drink, pull up a comfy chair and then tuck into the following article written by one of the best in the business:- All Of Grace by Charles Spurgeon
Tags: Christian Persecution, News
December 8th, 2009 at 10:02 am
I believe that both parties defended something that they believe in – and the “public order offence” was not directed at the persons themselves.
Now imagine what will happen if Ben and Sharon loose this case: many school teachers might feel that insulting comments and verbal abuse by school children to them(in and out of classroom) is enough (if not more of a reason to make a case agains the offending child); because the “public order offence” was directed at them personally.
Just watching the the TV series “Worlds stricktest parents” will show the kind of disrespect and abuse that many of the UK’s teachers must face every day.
December 8th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Would Ben and Sharon (so called Christians) remarked if the good lady was wearing a mini skirt and no knikers ?
The fact of the matters is, we are in a phase of ISLAMAPHOBIA! Muslim women who dress up in modesty are abused frequently and victims must speak out.
If our mother Mary (may God’s pleace and blessings be upon her) walked the earth in our times, ask yourselves, what clothing would she have been more inclined towards?…the mini skirt or fully clothed???
All TRUE religous people are GOD fearing and would not even raise an eye brow to another persons difference and therefore my opinion is that Sharon & Ben are not true Christians!
December 8th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Muhammad is satan and his followers are evil. Islam stands against women, freedom and basic human dignity. We should expel all the sick followers of this obscene religion from this country, by any means possible.
December 8th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Responding to “Scared to Comment?”
Your poisonous views are simply a reflection of your ignorance, arrogance and sick mind!
Educate yourself!
One day you may realise you share the same views and ambitions as……..
ADOLF HITLER!
December 8th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Ben and Sharon are vile racist pigs as is the Christian Nazi organisation they belong to who preach nothing but hate and violence:
Here is the link of these vile vermin:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://infidelsunite.typepad.com/.a/6a0111685b4b71970c0120a590362f970b-800wi&imgrefurl=http://infidelsunite.typepad.com/counter_jihad/2009/09/23/index.html&usg=__dN1fpUVzq-n61yMkmcr6fcr2wGM=&h=400&w=700&sz=97&hl=en&start=18&itbs=1&tbnid=Sj201SoVULCFTM:&tbnh=80&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBenjamin%2BVogelenzang%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG
December 9th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Maybe there wouldn’t be Islamaphobia if Muslims didn’t keep on carrying out terror attacks whcih are never stronlgy condemend. Or maybe if they didnt hold demonstrations calling for the death of the prime minister and the Queen. Or maybe if they didn’t harass ordinary people going to church. If the UK is so bad why dont they go and live somewhere like Iran or Saudi Arabia?
Seem to remember Hitler went down quite well with the Islamists
December 9th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Zak Jamal said
“Your poisonous views are simply a reflection of your ignorance, arrogance and sick mind!”
This is the best description of the false prophet Mohammed I have ever heard!
Speaking of Hitler. He had much in common with Mohammed. Hitler was freinds with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. There was a Muslim division in the SS, The SS Hanzar division.
Islam demands the elimination of of all non-Muslims.
The facist ideology that threatens everyone’s freedom in the world today is Islam.
December 9th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Joshua Christian,
Are we supposed to believe you are a Christian because you use a Christian name?
Your cry of “racism” is redundant, predictable, inaccurate & reactionary.
You can no longer rely on false accusations of “RACISM” to stop people from debating an issue.
ISLAM IS NOT A RACE.
Britain is not an Islamic state. We don not have to bow to your god or submit to your Sharia law.
Criticism of Islam, Mohammed, the Koran or Muslims is NOT A CRIME.
Christians are not Nazis.
Rather, you should be asking yourself why a man who had sex with a 9 year old girl should be considered a holy prophet? Why did he hate women? Why did he hate Jews?
Who preaches hate and violence? Not the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Bhuddists, Pagans or atheists of Britain but the Imams in the mosques.
Islam is the problem. So stop accusing everyone else. Telling the truth is not hate & violence.
December 10th, 2009 at 8:06 am
Mr and Mrs Benjamin and Sharon Vogelenzang
3/5 Church Avenue, Aintree, Liverpool, L9 4SG
Bounty House Hotel
3/5 Church Avenue, Aintree, Liverpool L9 4SG
Telephone: 0151 281 6750 Fax: 0151 281 6750
Email: tic@bountyhouse.co.uk
Dear Mr and Mrs Benjamin and Sharon Vogelenzang
I greet you with the greeting of Jesus Christ, the son of Maryam
Shalom Aleikhem!
I am of the view that the Director of Public Prosecutions was wrong in letting this matter go to Court and I am glad that the case against both of you was dismissed, but I object to the bias findings of the Judge, and to the outright lies told by you in order to defend yourselves, and the faked attempt of Mr Vogelenzang to intimidate an already complacent Judge, when the crowds, the Church leaders, their Lobby, and the media had already influenced the case in their favour. Mr Vogelenzang’s violent outburst is not that of a “very mild-mannered” person, not at all!
But, I cannot congratulate “Daily Mailonline” for their poorly balanced article showing one small photograph of the Muslim witness (the Crown was prosecuting!) and three big photographs (one huge front photograph of you both as the “Christians” running the small 9 room Boutique Hotel!), and the Christian supporters of “free speech” (which tacitly may mean they endorsed the religious attacks on Mrs Tazi), and the Christian “Free Speech” propaganda truck. This is indeed a sensational article that should have sold excellently well, and most probably boosted the sales of the hotel rooms had you not relied solely or so heavily on the hospital for your “world-wide” clientèle!
I will not dispute the fact that you did not commit the offence/crime alleged against you as you “denied using threatening, abusive or insulting words…”. But, I have some questions and a few observations because I can read some inconsistencies in the text of the article, a very bias one, in my view. If “Daily Mailonline” will allow my right to free speech, and right to reply, which normally is almost never granted to people with views like mine, I may not take it any further.
If I am fair regarding the dismissal of the trial, I must also be fair with Mrs Tazi. That lady stayed FOUR WEEKS in your hotel as a paying guest and was not found guilty of any misdemeanour or incorrect behaviour at all, and you want us to believe that on the very morning she was leaving the hotel, all of a sudden she behaved in such a despicable way! Did you know that Israeli Jews have developed such a hatred for Christianity that they cannot pass by a Christian priest, a church, a crucifix that they feel compelled to spit on them? Is the District Judge so ignorant that he did not know the hatred some people have when they see Muslim women (and young girls) covering up or Muslim men wearing a beard, which hatred often erupts in violence and in some cases in rape?
I am French. For nearly thirteen years, I was the manager of the Three Star Tourist Hôtel Windsor in Paris, in the very midst of the Jewish Community (the wealthiest in France!), and my guests were mainly Jewish middle class business men and women from all over the world. What I have read in “Daily Mailonline” would never have happened in any “hotel” run by professional and decent hoteliers. The fact that it happened, and in such a bizarre circumstance, that of a guest checking out after a four week stay causing such a big scandal, and the fact that the clearly biased Judge even had to stop the “very mild-mannered” Mr Vogelenzang from “Raising his voice, and thumping the witness box”, is a clear indication that we do not have in front of us a well-trained professional hotelier, but only a person quick to temper even in a Court environment! I have known many Zionists to do exactly that when they are wrong and want to intimidate the Judge (usually already bought in advance!)!
I have known “Jehovah Witnesses” for nearly half a century; they have always acted as gentlemen and gentlewomen in all circumstances, except in one, but which I will not mention here. If “Daily Mailonline” has correctly reported your words, it is clear that you have acted like an Evangelist born-again Christian preaching his Bible, which I do praise, but I did not read anything Christian at all in both your behaviours!
When Mrs Vogelenzang says “…takings were down by 80 per cent since they were prosecuted for a public order offence”, or that you were both ruined because of that one incident, and had to “put your hotel on sale”, I fail to understand this, given your popularity, your powerful Lobby, your wealthy Church or Fellowship.
When your wife admits referring to the “hijab” as a form of “bondage”, this is very unchristian, a lie and a serious insult and a false and malicious accusation, and it is explained either by ignorance (more rarely), and more often by hatred for Muslims and Islam. As a Christian, you and your wife should have known that the mother of Jesus Christ respected the hijab (modest dress) and wore a full scarf and jilbaab, and the Gospels (Saint Paul) even commands women not only to be covered, but to keep silent (And, I am polite!)!
Your manager who told you “that guests had been engaging in robust debates about religion over dinner table, led by Mrs Tazi and a self confessed “happy clappy Christian” did not deem it insulting enough (for one or the other) and has allowed the “robust debates” to continue for days! Is he not to blame? And, when you and your wife joined in when your guest was checking out and came down to thank you for your hospitality, was it professional what you both did?
Do you want us to understand further that you were a bunch of Christian Zionists united against a single 60 year-old Muslimah (a Muslim woman)? You seemed to have mentioned Caesar, Nero, Hitler, Mao and Saddam Hussein, but why not a single Christian dictator or king, not a single Jewish mass murderer : Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Churchill, Roosevelt, JFK, Johnson, Regan, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Major, Blair, Brown, Elizabeth, Leopold, Sharon, Kissinger, Albright, Rothschild, Rockefeller, and all the Israeli butchers and mass murderers, and countless others?
Do you want us to believe you when you say that Mrs Tazi left the hotel “as cool as a cucumber” after being so viciously attacked for one hour? If it was only for “seven minutes”, why did the Prosecution argue the one hour-long attack when the witness written statements were all saying seven minutes?
As for the Judge, I have a surprise for you, a very big one! Let me quote to you what District Judge Neil Skerratt said in his judgement against my wife on 3 February 1992.
“I cannot conceive the plaintiff would bring an action against someone who he has never met, I therefore accept his evidence.”
And, the Judge ruled against my wife and in favour of an Iranian “architect” (a crook working for my brother Saïd), and I was not granted my “freedom of speech” and my right to reply when the media (most probably invited in Court by my brother!) reported the case in a very bias manner, but I wrote to the Judges !
1. The Judge was lying when he said my wife never met the “architect” Homa Chehrepardaz, because she saw him at my brother’s restaurant the “Riverside Restaurant” in Colchester in 1990, and he was my brother’s “architect”.
2. The Judge was again lying when he said he accepted the architect’s “evidence” because the architect did not provide any evidence at all in Court, except two false witnesses provided by my conman brother Saïd (his own wife Susan Howard and one of his friends) who we had accused of “fraud” and had asked for a Police investigation. While I was living and doing business in Mauritius, and while my wife was on holiday and staying at my brother’s Riverside Hotel and Restaurant (a Muslim born pork, alcohol and cigarette dealer) with our 8 year-old son, my brother (elder) convinced my wife to part with £217,000 pounds under the pretext that he was selling to her a NURSING HOME! When I arrived in April 1990, I immediately found out that my brother had embezzled more than £100,000 of our funds by selling to my wife an old dilapidated residential detached house in Stanway (opposite Council houses) worth less than £100,000, at a time of recession when houses were being repossessed and when interest rates were as high as 13/14%.
3. My wife did not speak English. She was a house wife and did not work. I was the one managing our business. But, when I tried to translate for her in Court, District Judge Skerratt denied me that right, and appointed his young daughter instead (apparently still a student!).
4. At the Court’s first hearing, when the Court called the architect and asked him to give his name, he said it was HOMA CHEHREPARDAZ, but added that he had taken an English name instead. The Judge smiled and congratulated him for doing so!
5. We lost the case and we went on appeal. The appeal was denied because the other Judge said it was filed too late. When I argued that this was not correct. The Judge checked and saw I was right. He said, anyway, I refuse the appeal and threw the file on the table in anger, and said to my wife in a very rude manner: “Au revoir, Madame!” When I objected, the Judge tried to have me arrested!
6. Three times English Magistrates/Judges threatened to have me arrested. So much for British Justice!
7. As for my brother Saïd, the crook, the conman, the embezzler, the swindler, the fraudster, he was protected by the Courts, the Police and even the then Member of Parliament, Sir Anthony Buck! Why? I found out that what he had told me one day when he was delivering a box full of whisky bottles to the surgery of the local Member of Parliament, Sir Anthony Buck, that this was a bribe, was true and he was not just bragging, because later I also learned that he was even bribing ministers and the Police back in Mauritius.
8. Colchester Police never prosecuted him for fraud! He bragged he had even the Police “in his hands”! I found out he was a Police informer!
9. We sued him and spent more than £20,000 with a team of solicitors and barristers, more than ten, but we lost, and we even had to pay my brother’s costs for the mistake of our last solicitor who sued him for bankruptcy, because the Judge said it was the wrong procedure!
10. Now, District Judge Richard Clancy did not show total impartiality in this case. I bet, if Mrs Kazi was Jewish, he would never have conducted this case in that manner! He could (should) have dismissed the case for lack of evidence, but not denigrate Mrs Kazi’s English language and manner of speech while making no pronouncement at all on Mr Benjamin Vogelenzang’s violent outburst that contradicts his claim to “meekness” and God knows what, or pretend that he was now in possession of the truth in favour of you both!
Now, coming back to you, Mr and Mrs Benjamin and Sharon Vogelenzang, you have not convinced us that you are without blame for what happened to your guest Mrs Kazi because you joined in with the others after having certainly been told how Mrs Kazi felt about her religions, both Christianity (which happens to be yours) and Islam! Maybe, I should tell you (because most people ignore this truth) that Christianity is known as a Jewish heresy and Islam and a Christian heresy. Muslims are in fact Jewish and Christians with one exception. They hold that both Judaism and Christianity have been corrupted, and that both religions are one and the same, that is, Islam! When well educated Muslims speak and write about Islam, they mean Judaism and Christianity in its perfected and uncorrupted form! Islam corrected and completed ALL previous religions. But, whether this is true or false is not relevant here.
But, what is relevant is that you should all be ashamed of yourselves for attacking the only religion in the world and in history that respects all previous Prophets, Messengers, God-given Revelations, from ALL nations, and cowardly enough for gang attacking a 60 year old woman ! Further, you “Christians” do not have a monopoly on “Jesus Christ”, whether he is indeed God sent (or God himself!) or a myth! If Mrs Kazi really said Jesus was a “minor prophet”, then she was wrong, or YOU ARE LYING, because Islam teaches that he will have the sole honour to return and his Mother is the most blessed woman in Islam! Further, she cannot say the “Bible is untrue” because Muslims believe in the Torah and the Gospels although only in their uncorrupted form. British television has proved that the actual Bible is only a fragment of the real Holy Scriptures. “Jehovah Witnesses” found “50,000 errors in the Bible” and say they corrected them all! I do not think any learned Muslim will say that “the Bible is untrue”. Like Pr Walter Bundy, they will say it has suffered from interpolation, additions, alterations, and so on, but not that it is untrue, but that part of it is untrue! Scholars have found many untruths in the Old Testament!
Most Christians, Jews, Hindus and Atheists in this country are Zionist and in favour of the Holocausts (phosphorus, vacuum, cluster…bombs, depleted uranium,… one million times more lethal than Zyklon B!) of Muslims and of all Arab nations! If you claim to be Christians, my dear Brother and Sister of the Faith, then, please, behave like Christ-like Christians not like Zionists, who in order to succeed in their Zionist Crusade, are resorting to total demonisation of Muslims and Islam. They have the weapons of mass destruction, but claim (with Six Million tears in their eyes daily) that they are terrorised by a girl or woman wearing a piece of cloth over her head and covering her bosom and private parts, to such an extent that they have enacted laws to ban the Islamic dress code in all public institutions making Muslims second class citizens! Here, in the Zionist controlled UK, they see in Muslim teenagers as “plane suicide bombers” when they are the ones orchestrating all these false flag operations around the world and blaming it on Muslims.
One thing that you may not realise, is that the incident like the one that happened in your case can only enhance hatred for each other for decades if not more and not love! When I denounced my brother for fraud, he retaliated and placed a huge pig’s head on my letter-box with my photograph skewered to it. The Police said it was just a joke! So, with the huge army of supporters you had at your disposal, no wonder your case was dismissed in such an unchristian manner! And, finally, if you are Zionists, the following link will be of no interest to you as it is meant only for true Christians and people of compassion no matter what religion they profess. I still would like to believe you are true Christians but misled ones! A final word, this thing about praying to Jesus one to one, it is baloney! Pray to a tree one to one, it will have the same effect! This is what religion is all about! If you believe, THERE IS GOD, if you do not believe, THERE IS NO GOD!
http://palestinian.ning.com/profiles/blogs/the-second-crucifixion-of
With Christian Love
B.A. Frémaux-Soormally
Thursday 10th of December 2009 (my deceased father’s birthday)
P.S. By the way, how on earth did you manage to “foster a Muslim child”? I will have to take this up with the authorities. Did you adopt five children and foster one for money, or for what?
December 10th, 2009 at 9:56 am
The case against this couple is definitely over-kill. Our govt is bending over backwards to assist everyone EXCEPT the Christian or the agnostic individual who neverthless feels that Islam is not just a religion but a sociopathic way of life. Everyone is haram except another Muslim. In fact, two British-born Muslims have told me that others are barely seen as human. Muslim kids are brought up to believe that anyone who is not of their faith is dirty and immoral.
I am making the distinction between sociopathy and psychopathy, because the former type of person retains all normal emotions, but the latter never had them. A fairly good example of a sociopathic way of life is the Mafia.
It is Islam’s avowed intention to make Europe Muslim. They have said this many times on TV and radio. So everyone, please keep this in mind.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Zak Jamal, “Would Ben and Sharon (so called Christians) remarked if the good lady was wearing a mini skirt and no knikers”
So if a woman, even a sixty year old, is not dressed in a hijab it is akin to going around dessed in a mini skirt without underwear? It seems this individual have nothing but contempt for women in general and non Muslim women in particular. Such sexist and misogynist attitudes do not belong in the West or indeed anywhere else in the civilized world!
Freedom of speech does include the right to offend, otherwise there would be no need for such a right! People who freely choose to live in liberal democracies should not only understand but be required to understand such basic principles which are the very cornerstone of democracy itself.
While I do not condone a lack of civility,least of all in service providers, the fact is, this vexatious and frivilous case almost cost the Vogelzangs their business and their livelihood!
December 12th, 2009 at 10:05 am
I fully support Auburn’s comments (9/12). Of course Hitler had an SS Muslim division called Hanzar – the Muslims couldnt wait to go and kill Jews. That was their only reason to be in the SS, and Hitler knew that but didnt care because he knew the hate that Islam has for Jews (as he did) and in fact ANYONE. The fascism of Hitler melded very well with the fascism of Islam.
I doubt that Hitler was well-disposed towards Muslims despite his temporary allegiance with them, because he knew of their cruel and debased attitude towards animals. Hitler, as we have read, had regard for animals and I think was a vegetarian, though not necessarily for reasons of compassion.
A question to any Muslim, please: IF you despise our “loose” ways in the UK then why do you come here? However badly our young people are behaving and regardless of all the errors we make in our journey thru life, it is our RIGHT to make them. It is only thru personal and visceral experience can be grow and mature.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:22 am
I refer to Frémaux’Soormally’s very long comment of 10/12. I have to say (and I am not being provocative here) that when I worked for a Muslim man I found that there was a lot of dishonesty in business dealings. Several times my employer loaned money to other Muslim men and each time they did the dirty on him. They never paid him back. I found this type of behaviour to be the norm amongst them, and my employer also was not averse to dodgy dealings with his fellow Muslim brothers.
Whenever he chased them for a payment, he received email and the first paragraph would be all sorts of blessings on his family and how his family was held in high esteem, and then loads of explanation why the person could not pay even a small instalment back.
If HONOUR is so important in Islam, why are there so many dishonest people? I could understand if they were taking the money from a Westerner, but amongst your own ….
December 12th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
@Zak Jamal: Adolf Hitler was a brother in mind with Muhammed. Nazism and Islam both are against jews and against people with different way of life.
Quran, 2:190 “Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
2.191 “And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.”
8:55 “Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe -
Is this a “Religion of Peace”?
egon sunsamu, “nonbeliever”
December 12th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
egon sunsamu this is about what you said above
did you read the bible before? i guess not
well the verses you mentioned above are revealed for certain event about 5 men the were very dangerous men on the security of the empier crimianls the history books and tafser mentioned them in thier names.
now i will show you some of the bible verses and waiting for you comments if this what you mean in peace
Isaiah 13:16 “Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.”
Exodus 32:27 “. . . Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbou
Deut 21:10-12 “When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; ”
Exodus 31:15 ” . . . whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.”
there is alot such verses in the bible more than 840
December 16th, 2009 at 2:14 am
Assalaam Alaikoum,
I want you all to know that my two witnesses in my case were good true Christians, two Christians that stood up and told the truth about what happened that day.
These two Christians were at the Pain Clinic with me for illnesses that affect them with chronic pain and lots of other problems. They had to go through a lot of stress to go into that court for me, but they did it because they believed in standing up for the truth.
I with my illness have memory problems and the Judge was well aware of this and so was their barrister, thats why he played on times.
They were harrased like me and my barrister (who may I add )I never met didnt stop the harrassing of us all.
Why did I not meet my barrister ?? ask yourself that ? I asked to see her when I was in the witness room.
Why couldnt iI discuss a certain key witness ??
These two liars from the Bounty House stood up and swore oaths to tell the truth and they lied and lied on the Holy Bible. Disgusting and hateful as they are !
They have used propaganda and lies to fool people and the system.
That day they were vicious and full of hate for my clothes and for my faith.
You have no idea how many lies they have told to protect themselves.
One of the key witnesses was their son, who witnessed everything and he came running out after me to apologise, he was so upset at how they treated me a 60 yrs old disabled patient that was put in their hotel by the NHS to be cared for in their Hotel. He was nearly in tears !
They protected him away from this court case, every time I talked about him, I wasnt allowed to, why not ????
Because he knew the truth ! there also was another witness to this and he wanted to write a statement but the police wouldn’t accept a statement, they wanted him to attend court and he felt that difficult due to his personal life, he didnt live locally. He lived many miles away.
This couple has fooled you all, I was a Christian and was in the Legion of Mary too, true Christians never lie on the Holy Bible NEVER !
This trial has been a test case, I have been a pawn in a political game , this was Islam against Chritianity !
It really was about a a couple of Hotel owners that verbally attacked me a patient in their hotel.
I had been verbally attacked with some terrible insults about our beloved prophet (peace be upon him) and no wonder I was upset after the barrage of insults, and her with her hands in my face shouting at me, yes I did say a few strong words and when I said would he prefer me have my cleavage out and drunk on the floor , he said YES “” I would be more righteous !!
They have fostered a Muslim, how is that allowed, they are always serving alcohol ???
A muslim should never be allowed in their care, its a disgrace !
I never expected huge media involvement, but that is what they wanted and how they played it.
I never wanted a trial, just a warning to tell them them never to do it to another poor soul. Next time an old lady might have a heart attack or something.
They have made me and my witnesses out to have distorted the truth, when it was them who told lie after lie and on the Holy Bible. I am suffering at those people hands, they verbally attacked me and have got away with it. I have no faith in the system but I do have faith in Allahs justice.
I do kow one thing though, my nightmare is now, at this moment in time and Allah (God) knows everything, when they die their nightmare will begin, they will have to stand before Allah with what they have done to me and sworn on the Holy Bible with all their lies.
I have not lost my faith in Christians as my witnesses were two true Christians but this case will only distance the Muslims from the Chrstians even more instead of us working together and loving each other as human beings.
I will NEVER EVER FORGIVE THEM and may Allah serve his justive on them. InshaAllah.
December 16th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Auburn Says:
December 9th, 2009 at 9:14 pm “…a man who had sex with a 9 year old girl…”
Christians do not tell lies! This is a blatant lie!
BAFS
Joshua Christian Says:
December 8th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
“Ben and Sharon are vile racist pigs…”
This is neither Christian nor Islamic etiquette!
BAFS
December 16th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Joanna Richards Says:
December 12th, 2009 at 10:22 am
“If HONOUR is so important in Islam, why are there so many dishonest people? I could understand if they were taking the money from a Westerner, but amongst your own ….”
HONOUR is also important in Christianity, but look at the behaviour of those who call themselves Christians!
True Christians and true Muslims are quite rare. Both are the products of western Atheist civilisation. Most good Christians and Muslims have been murdered and died away. What is left today is not representaitive of either religion.
Since I came to Britain in 1990-1991, I have been conned and lied to mostly by Muslims, including Mosque people, executives of an “Asian Community Centre”, by so-called Muslim charities, and so-called Muslim organisations.
But, Muslims are not the worse crooks on earth. Usurers are! We just bailed them out with our tax money, millions, bilions, trillions….! The British fascist establishment has already started a wide campaign to rip off the entire nation (exclusing Jews and Capitalists) through illegal fines and illegal taxes, and the worse is to come.
So, so-called Believers in God, watch out for the APOCALYPSE JEW NOW!
BAFS
December 16th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Dear Sister Ericka TAZI
Wa ‘alaykum salaam wa rahmatullahi ta’ala wa barakatuhu!
I am very glad to read from you here. Thank God, I can tell you what I think of the little I know about your case.
What you are saying here is that you had two Christian witnesses, and that your barrister and the Judge were in connivance to make a fool of you in Court. Well, I have known both corrupt barristers here and corrupt Judges. Are there any honest ones, I doubt very much!
“These two liars from the Bounty House stood up and swore oaths to tell the truth and they lied and lied on the Holy Bible.”
Well, this is not surprising for hypocrites, whether from Christian or Muslim hypocrites!
“…a 60 yrs old disabled patient…”
This is proof enough how Satanic some so-called Christians can be! As for the Judge, do not forget that many of them are paedophiles, racists, freemasons, Zionists, and so on!
“This couple has fooled you all, I was a Christian and was in the Legion of Mary too, true Christians never lie on the Holy Bible NEVER !”
Of course, I too can be fooled, my dear, but not in YOUR case! Your case is NOW very clear, because I would rather believe you than the “Christian” liars, blasphemers, and racists! Of course, you are right, because true Christians never lie, not this kind of lies anyway!
“I had been verbally attacked with some terrible insults about our beloved prophet (peace be upon him) and no wonder I was upset after the barrage of insults, and her with her hands in my face shouting at me, yes I did say a few strong words, and when I said would he prefer me have my cleavage out and drunk on the floor , he said YES!”
Had I been there, there would have been BIG TROUBLE! I was not in Bosnia when they (so-called Christians and Jews, Atheists and Comunists) raped 60,000 women and young girls, mostly Muslims, but the time will come, insha’Allah when I will have to pay my debt to society, AND PAY I WILL, measure for measure!
“I will NEVER EVER FORGIVE THEM.” But, when the time comes, and if they repent, YOU WILL FORGIVE THEM, my dear Sister! This life has so many surprises for us all.
The Police tricked you into this trial because they already knew the outcome, or are they so stupid? It was to be a media stunt, and somebody may even have been bribed to drag you into it! If I were you, I would not despair, and inform ALL the Higher authorities about this planned injustice! Do not take it personally because they say worse things about Islam, Muhammad, peace and blessings upon him, (even right here on this forum!!!!!!!), his entire Holy Family and so on! Did not Elizabeth (Saxe-Coburg-Battenburg-Gotha and what not!) not recently made Satanic Rushdie a Christian “Knight” for blaspheming Islam, slandering the Prophet and all Muslim’s Holy people? Did she not give her blessings to the racist and misogynist Charles Darwin that she has allowed with her on the same £10 Jewish/Rothschild bank note?
Well, for sure, they have not fooled me at all! May God bless you and all true Believers and all good people!
Barak Allah Fik
Your Big Brother in Islam
Basheer Ahmad Frémaux-Soormally
Wednesday 16th of December 2009
P.S. If you need any advice or help, please, do not hesitate to let me know!
My Email is bafremauxsoormally@yahoo.co.uk
December 18th, 2009 at 12:46 am
Dear Joanna Richards
Anti-Islam and anti-Muslim racism is institutionalised in Britain. No wonder people are so ignorant and so brainwashed.
“Islam is not just a religion but a sociopathic way of life. Everyone is haram except another Muslim.” (Joanna Richards)
“…the false prophet Mohammed…” (Auburn)
“Speaking of Hitler. He had much in common with Mohammed.” (Auburn)
“• johann Says:
December 9th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Maybe there wouldn’t be Islamaphobia if Muslims didn’t keep on carrying out terror attacks which are never stronlgy condemend. Or maybe if they didn’t hold demonstrations calling for the death of the prime minister and the Queen. Or maybe if they didn’t harass ordinary people going to church. If the UK is so bad why don’t they go and live somewhere like Iran or Saudi Arabia?
Seem to remember Hitler went down quite well with the Islamists” (johann)
I pity these small people who have always very big mouths and such a foul tongues about their neighbours! But, this is meant to be as they need to be distracted from the real issues at stake: public health, education, employment, pension, healthy living, freedom, and so on.
I was talking for half an hour to “white” “Socialist” activists in Walthamstow today for more than half an hour. I told them in no uncertain terms how their ideology has brought wars after wars, the decadence of Christendom, the destruction of the family, the enslavement of the people. They were baffled to learn how many hundreds of millions of innocent people Socialism and its other isms had been guilty of during the entire of the XXth century since the demise of Christianity and Islam and “the death of God”, and had not one single argument to disprove my damning statements. Yet, they would go along preaching their deadly ideology week after week exactly like a fanatical religion!
I told them they were lying about the “racist” BNP while they were hiding the bigger institutionalise racism of their own government that hires mercenary-soldiers to go and rape and sodomise, torture and murder innocent and defenceless men, women and children in other countries! Their ideology is not only murderous but bogus!
Here, we have a blatant case of injustice, but who cares? The only people who write commentaries irrelevant to the subject are filled with ignorance, venom and hatred. Telling so many lies about Muslims and Islam is not the right way forward! The day Muslims will wake up, YOU ALL will have to shut up once for all! You know almost nothing about that religion except what your racist Zionist-controlled media is telling you!
You are a shame to civilisation. If YOU ARE A SAMPLE of what Britain can produce, I really pity you! What you refuse to understand because of your blindness and total ignorance of politics is that your so-called civilised and peaceful countries, whether it is Britain, France, Germany or America, has been slaughtering people in the African and Asian continents for centuries. I know of no Asian or African who really wants to come to the West except the collaborators (and materialists) of the western regimes who have put dictators to run all their client-states at the behest of the IMF, the World Bank (debt-collecting agencies) and the UNO (debt-creating agency) through bogus elections!
Britain does not have to accept a single African or Asian so-called immigrant if she does not want to, but what the government does not tell you is that their contractors are building dams, for example in Pakistan or India, and is flooding hundreds of villages at a time, displacing millions of people, a few of which are invited or accepted here in Britain only to be used as scapegoats when elections are approaching in order to scare their stupid masses and distract them from the real problems that face the nation as a whole.
Regarding so-called terror attacks blamed on innocent Muslims, you should rather look for the real culprits amongst the money Jews and not the Muslims! Common Purpose, Chabad Lubavitch Terror Cells, MI5, MI6, MOSSAD, squatter Elizabeth II, 10 Downing Street (where the real terrorists operate!), the British Labour, Conservative and Liberal Friends of Israel!
Regarding Adolph Hitler, an illegitimate son of a Jewish banker, he is the scapegoat that has been used by Zionists to carry out al their wars for more than half century. Hitler concerns only the 1933-1945 period of history (the time slot of history after Judea, after setting up the Third Reich, declared war on Germany!) while Imperialism, Colonialism, Socialism, Social Darwinism, Liberalism, Atheism (Secularism), Communism, Zionism, European and American Godless Nationalism, Humanism, Democracy, and now the New Zionist World Order has been waging endless genocidal wars since Hitler “died” back in 1945!
Enough said for the education of the naïve and the neophytes!
BAFS
18/12/2009
December 19th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
I am muslim and I am English born and bred !
My colour is WHITE ! with English parents and grandparents and a family tree of ENGLISH family.
I am not from the Eastern block liket he Zionists hiding behind Christianity.
Why should I go and live in another country, this IS my country, this is always what the kafirs say the ignorant fools.
Its all down to the Zionists and the New World Order you are correct brother.
I am not political and am a simple woman but I do believe that I have been used a scapegoat and a test case, by the authorities.yes !
My country disgusts me and if I could I WOULD live in another Muslim country.
This country, the Uk is full of alcoholics, prostitutes, drug addicts, corruption, hate and more….
no morals whatsoever !
it is a digusting kafir country and it has been proved to me by my case.
I have seen throughout my life, girls and boys having babies at puberty age,
Hiv and aids and homosexuality is high !! great moral country !! gays can marry !! lol..
I have seen drug addicts that now are accepted in our system and receive benefits off the system, and never work,
Men beating up their wives !!
Alcoholics get away with crime because they were ‘drunk’ ?? and they live off the system too.
peadophilia is high, great country the Uk, DONT MAKE ME LAUGH !
My husband came here to live in the UK because of me and my family, he doesnt like it here, and wants to go, but my family are here.
And Politics ?? WELL… they are all corrupt.
My father and grandfather fought in the two world wars for our freedom !! freedom to get out of your mind and increase disease and hate !!
if they were alive today I am sure they would never of fought for the great country that they thought it was, dont make me laugh !
Its disgusting and vile. and so are the majority of the the people here… full of hate and low morals.
English fools open your eyes !! Zionists rule here !!
December 19th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
To Auburn, you have been fooled you fool, they lied and lied on the Holy Bilble…. were you there ? my witnesses were….
At the end of the day they have to stand in front of Allah (God), Judgement day and that is one consolation I do have !! InshaAllah !
do you think Allah will approve of their blatent sick lies on the Holy Bible !
The Holy Quran is a way of life and has never ever been altered, Alhamdulilah !
I led the life as a Christian before, smoking, alcohol !! thats where I got my use of the English language from when I tried to argue back with those liars. But thats one lesson I have learnt from all this fiasco and farce of a trial. one less bad example of the English way of life here.
Allah is just and will have the last say, and if you didnt all know, Allah is the Arabic term for God, as a lot of ignorant Christians think we worship another God, as I even had to explain today to one.
By the way, my case has left us all with Freedom of speech, so I can now go around insulting Christians and Jews and whoever I want… ???????????
December 19th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Ericka, that was just a rant, tarring everyone with thhe same brush.
Your God has no son, our God does. They are NOT the same God.
And yes, perhaps the owner of this blog is somewhat sympathetic towards the Jewish nation, but I bet he won’t run off to the police to complain about the things you are saying.
December 19th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
I agree with some of the statements made by Ericka Tazi, the self-deceiver. Yes, the UK has degenerated into an amoral or immoral mess. Too many uneducated immigrants are allowed in, they do not have anythng to offer becuase they are not educated or have a skill that is required in this country. Young people are ignorant, self-serving and foul – though there are a few bright stars out there who have a higher purpose and are not in the thrall of glossy magazines.
How ever bad this country has become it still allows everyone to make their own mistakes in life. Of course, benefits should not be given to junkies and the lazy and these are issues that can be put right. But what Mrs Tazi is saying is Join Islam and let that be your main experience of life. Ignore your own conscience and intuition; if a woman, do not even consider working in some industries. This in effect means removing yourself from all sorts of experiences because men & women who are not related cannot mix socially, for example.
Muslim people are not altruistic. It is simply not part of their culture or mindet. This applies also to other non-European nations too. They will give to Muslim charities if requested by their Imam, but that’s it. The notion of being altruistic without expecting payment or a favour in return is simply unknown in the Middle East. This is in direct opposition to one of the virtues in Christianity. You dont have to be well-off to be altruistic – indeed, if you have little but still give something to a stranger then this is the highest form of kindness.
And the worst in Islam? That is LACK OF COMPASSION, AN ABIDING NEED TO DEMONISE & HATE, CRUELTY.
Converts tend to be the disaffected, the vulnerable, and people like Mrs Tazi who “try out” different religions every few years. The young, British-born women that I see completely veiled-up except for the eyes, are enjoying what I call “a need to feel different” to the host country. They are looking to feel hard done by, discriminated against. In other words, they WANT TO FEEL AGGRIEVED. This is a piece of psychology that has a name – perhaps someone could tell me what it is. I have also seen it in the workplace (nothing to do with Islam): staff members who are just looking for an opportunity to complain about something; they will even convince themselves that a co-worker has belittled them. Islam is sociopathic and it is not simply a religious way of life, because Islam looks down on everyone who is not a muslim. Co-existence is anathema to them, and that is why no Arab state will allow churches in their country.
UK non-muslim people do not want to banish religions because it is everyone’s privilege to enjoy worship. Islam, on the other hand, does not tolerate any other creed, wants to raze all churches to the ground and considers non-Muslims little more than farm animals.
I consider Islam a dangerous and sick way of life.
December 20th, 2009 at 12:59 am
I am not arguing with stupid and ignorant uneducated people which obviously you both are, Sitter and Richards.
Have a hit a raw nerve with both of you, do you both belong to the groups I mentioned ?
This is exactly what I mean about this so called country and the majority of the inhabitants.
I am not wasting anymore time on this site, goodbye and may your God go with you or is it Shaytan ?
December 20th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Well, it is obvious there can be no intelligent debate or exchange of ideas here! I was not wrong in chosing ISLAM as my way of life as it clearly distinguishes right from wrong, LIES from TRUTH! Some people have chosen either one or the other.
SISTER ERICKA TAZI is a living example how wrong YOU ALL are in the FUNDAMENTALS and how corrupt this Zionist Bolshevik country of YOURS is and how little Christianity is left! The time of serfdom (European white slavery) is not yet over, physically and intellectually. In France, we (Freemasons) chopped the heads of the monarchs! In Russia, Jews shot the Christian monarchs and his entire family, maid and dog! (Talmudic Vengeance!) But, here, the monarch is worshipped as the god of Judah!
It looks to me that Sister Ericka has already found this out by herself, alhamdulillah! Truth always stands out very clearly from LIES! And this is Islam. One main difference between Islam (Diin) and all the other religions is that Islam accepts all previous Prophets, Messengers and Holy people of whatever and MUSLIMS are forbidden to slander them! But, this is not the case with ALL other religions, including Judaism and Christianity, where Jews and Christians (and Atheists) feel free and all righteous when they slander Islam, the Prophet of Islam (of Mankind and Jinnkind) and the Holy people of Islam! So, their “tolerance” and “compassion” are ZERO, not forgetting their “MORALITY” and “JUSTICE”!
With Islamic Love
BAFS
December 20th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Pew Sitter Says:
December 19th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
“Your God has no son, our God does. They are NOT the same God.”
I do not think it is fair to turn this blatant case of racism and injustice into a battle of Christianity versus Islam or vice versa!
When you say “Your God” and “our God”, you are talking the Jewish talk of a personal God with a Chosen People, the Jews, or in your case the Christians. But, before you even try to compare your religions with Islam, I think it would be fair to LEARN about it in the first place, and not read racist propaganda against it!
Now, young man, or whoever you are, God in Islam is THE GOD (AL LAH) of the entire universe and of all that is in it, the visible and the invisible. “Your God” too is AL LAH, if you were willing to read about EL, LAH, ELAH, ELI, AL LAH in your own “Holy Bible” in the original tongue. Hundreds of times the world AL LAH is mentioned in your Bible but you and your predecessors have chosen to ignore it because they wanted a personal God and a RACIST religion…!
Do you remember what God did Jesus evoke on the cross (“Jehovah Witnesses” say there was no cross but only a stake!)? ELI!!!!!!! Do you know what the Semitic letters Y H W H stand for? Most Christians don’t! It stands for YA HU WA H, the Arabic for HE IS! Do you remember what God said to Moses in the Jewish Hollywood film THE TEN COMMANDMENTS? He said, tell the world (“His People”) … “I AM”. Check the film again! This is a clear distortion of YA HU WAH! I AM GOD! HE IS GOD!
So, please, do not try to teach us about Arabic or Semitic terminology!
Finally, did you know that Muslims, like Christians, believe in the Return of Christ? So, we should all be Brothers and Sisters of the Faith! Or, do you disagree?
With Christian Love
Basheer
December 20th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Joanna Richards Says:
December 19th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
“Muslim people are not altruistic. It is simply not part of their culture or mindet.”
You are certainly right as for the first part of your statement! But, why LIE by adding that it is not part of their culture OR mindset?
If you re-read the “Holy Bible”, you will see how altruistic is even the Biblical God and His “Chosen People”!
When you start blaming he petty crimes and sins of Muslims, why hide the Himalayan crimes and sins of so-called Christians and so-called Jews that have already slaughtered nearly half a billion people since Christopher Colombus through their Crusades, Inquisitions, genocidal wars, wars of plunder, slavery, colonialism and now Zionist imperialism?
Love
BAFS
December 21st, 2009 at 8:27 am
Dear beloved Christian Brothers and Sisters
Shalom ‘Aleikhem!
This is the greeting of Jesus Christ (Yehoshua) to his blessed Mother Maryam (Mary). Your enemies are not the Muslims or Islam, but those who have highjacked your religion ever since Jesus departed from this material world. Saul, a fanatical and extremist Jew and Roman collaborator was responsible for the schism in orthodox Christianity. Another Jew (Al-Sabah, probably an ancestor of the Western puppet king Sheikh Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah of Mesopotamian Kuwait) was responsible for the schism in Islam six centuries later. Jews and Zionists have taken over the Vatican and the Christian Churches, both Catholic and so-called Protestant and Evangelical ones.
I am not giving you my opinion here, but what I saw when I attended Sunday masses with my Catholic “friends”. First, I discovered that the Catholic Church had been transformed into Marxist Temples. Then, to my horror, after Crypto-Jew Aaron Jean-Marie Lustiger (“Catholic” Archbishop of Paris), had made it obligatory to be preached in all French churches that all Catholics were Jews, and that himself though a Catholic had never renounced his Jewish faith!!!!!!!
Then, when the CIA and the Knesset had catapulted another Crypto-Jew, Nicolas Sarkozy (who pretended he was a Catholic, according to Daryl Bradford Smith!), to lead the French Zionist State, there was more preaching in church about the Apartheid entity called Israel and Zionism than about Jesus or Christianity! SO, I AND ANOTHER MUSLIM FRIEND (GHYSLAINE ROC) LEFT THE CHURCH FOR GOOD around 1995-96!
Do you want to know how much power do Jews still exert on the Vatican? Check who controls its finances. It would seem it is the Rothschilds!!!!!!! Why do you think that because Pope Benedict XVI declared Pius XII ‘venerable,’ this has angered Jewish groups, and namely the ADL” and Apartheid Israel who want (require, order, command …) the Vatican to open all its archives to the Jews for scrutiny? Jews (and their gangster godfather Abe Foxman) would decide if a Catholic Pope should be beatified or not!
I have had a Roman Catholic upbringing and the Mother Church never recognised ISRAEL ON EARTH! But, since Zionists have highjacked the Vatican, the Zionist Pope Jean-Paul II has gone against Church teachings by accepting the racist entity known as Eretz Israel (Israel on Earth), the greatest terrorist entity on this planet! Money Jews control the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, a great part of South America and South Africa, Europe, Russia, South-East Asia, and now they are in China and India. They have their hands in all the wars, political assassinations and false flag operations (9/11. 7/7…) of the past half century.
If you cannot see that, what kind of a Christian can you be? Even “Christmas” has been highjacked by Jewish monopolies!!!!!! But, please, stop your anti-Islam hatred and lies, because it does not befit any true Christian. If you could remember the real Jesus of what is left of his gospels, this may prove that your religion is really Christ-like and not Zionism! I would advise you to watch APOCALYPSIS (on Youtube) of my friend “Adriana Evangelizt” or her blogs on Palestine, Iraq, Chechnya, the New World Order, and her Revelations about December 2012. Although I do not wholly agree with her, she is one of my inspirations.
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/palestinium/
With Christian love
BAFS
December 21st, 2009 at 9:09 am
Frémaux-Soormally. The main reason for the strong objections that have been made on this site by non-Muslims is that we do not want to be in a society where the politically-correct tip-toe around the sensitivities of the Muslim. These PC people are USEFUL IDIOTS and will be used to bring down the culture of Europe.
To those Muslims not born in the West …. WHY are you coming here? It is to destabilise this country thru sheer numbers. Your bith rate is deliberately much higher than the indigenous Europeans, and this is just one way that Islam hopes to overturn centuries of western culture and way of life. You pretend to be asylum seekers but journey through five safe countries in order to get to the UK. Those from the Middle East – why don’t you seek safety in Jordan, for example? The answer is because Jordan does NOT want you! So many Muslim countries dont even want their own – that is the truth. So instead you journey to Europe, to a way of life that is different to yours, the food, language, culture, music, sometimes climate are all alien to you, and yet you come. You have ravaged parts of Italy and Sweden – the crime rate has increased and, in Malmö Sweden, rape has increased by 20 percent. Your disgustingly gross men are raping Swedish women. How Islamic is that!
But of course this is not a sin in the eyes of Allah, because the raped woman is a kaffir. What a disgusting attitude.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:38 am
Dear Joanna Richards
First, are you a good person and are you really interested in the truth? If the answer is yes, then, I am willing to spend some time clarifying some of the points you raised in the hope that you would change your mind about certain vital matters concerning “immigrants” in your country or any other western country. Second, I note that you are not writing as a Christian but as a Chauvinist Nationalist who seems uninformed about world politics, but who is spewing racist propaganda instead of facts. Third, I believe you owe an apology to Miss Ericka Kazi (which is the subject matter here!) unless you believe she is the guilty party and not the unprofessional hotel keepers.
1. “… the politically-correct tip-toe around the sensitivities of the Muslim.”
This is simply not true. If your premises can be proven false, then all your analysis and statements are worth nothing. There is not a single western regime that tip-toes “around the sensitivities of the Muslim”. The West never gives a damn about Muslims anywhere in the world! Check how many they and their Communist buddies slaughtered in the past centuries? Between 75 to 150 millions, and these figures are not controversial like the notorious “Six Million”! Muslims and “Blacks” obtained some rights here thanks to homosexuals. They could not give homosexuals all those rights and privileges without giving a few rights to their Muslim and Black collaborators!
The foreign Muslims that you find in the West have all been invited to do jobs that Westerner have refused to do! Miss Ericka Kazi, George Bernard Shaw, Lady Diana (if she was not murdered), Yusuf Islam and thousands others who embraced Islam are not of them, and your observations and accusations do not concern them!
Westerners tend to dump their elderly more and more into what we call in France “mouroirs” dying houses because. They do not want their elderly at home anymore, and do not even want to take care of them in those homes for the elderly! They do not want even to work as nurses because it is seen as degrading! So, Britain has allowed Muslims and others from their COLONIES to come and do the “dirty” jobs their own young people refused to do! They also needed cheap (slave) labour to do all kinds of menial jobs. When the English are enjoying their evenings at home, they make foreign slaves (Africans, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, Turks, etc.) work for them, driving their buses, trains, selling groceries, drugs (alcohol, nicotine…), picking up their garbage, doing night shifts in hospitals, Nursing and Death Homes, hospitals, and so on. Your Christian (now Catholic) former Prime Minister even imported white prostitutes from the Balkans and East Europe for your people’s consumption!
If we are not in agreement on this simple fact of history, then there is no need for me to write about the rest. I would however like to write to those hotel keepers and ask them if the two Christian witnesses too did lie while swearing to tell the Truth on the “Holy Bible”!
As for me, I did not come to Europe as one of those “filthy”, “materialist” and uneducated immigrants. Your good English people (Jews and Christians of the East India Company) came to my homeland hiding as traders, and were received as guests. They lied, cheated and took over my homeland, plundered its wealth, slaughtered millions and imposed western culture, language and politics on us, and put their puppet dictators who are still oppressing our people to this very day. Millions of the Survivors of western orchestrated holocausts were shipped as indentured slaves to the British colonies including the Americas! From independent countries, we became colonies, slaves of the West, and after so-called independence, we became neo-colonies, members of the white Englishman’ Common wealth, but without any share in the wealth at all, and finally we were forced to become and remain for ever their client states, controlled and dictated by the West through the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and the United Nations Dictatorship! Our “leaders” still take orders from 10 Downing Street, Washington and Tel-Aviv! When we refuse, we are bombed back to the Dark Ages!!!!!!!
WE DO NOT WANT YOUR PEOPLE, YOUR CULTURE, YOUR RELIGION, YOUR TECHNOLOGY, AND YOUR CIVILISATION AT ALL IN OUR LANDS!!!!!!!
But, your people and their military have been imposing themselves on us for centuries! If we had weapons to fight them back, you (not you personally) would all be out and back to your country without our oil, gold diamond and other natural resources! The collaborators, you can keep them all, because we do not want those traitors back ever! Your people were racist like their slave-owning leaders. Now, they are using the same racist cards against people they have invited in to do their “dirty” job! This strategy has been used very successfully by all governments to scare their masses, especially during “election” time! Why cannot you put this in your head that “we are not coming here” out of our own free will! Some of us are made to or forced to come here because YOUR PEOPLE ARE OCCUPYING OUR LANDS AND RESOURCES!!!!!!! If the Ottoman Islamic Khilaafah (Caliphate), Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, Algeria, Indonesia, Tunisia, Morocco, Bosnia, Chechnya, Kashmir, … are not good examples enough, I am afraid I cannot be of any help to you!
I will end here, thanking the webmaster very sincerely for his hospitality. By the way, my dear, Christianity is not a Western or White Man’s religion, but a “Semitic” and Palestinian one! Jesus was a Palestinian like his blessed mother!
Regards
BAFS
December 21st, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Mr Frémaux-Soormally, you are so full of hate.
You say that the West does not tip-toe around Muslims – I’m afraid they do, at local council level. This is an instruction from central government. Most asylum seekers nowadays are Muslim. It may not have been 20 yrs ago, but now in the UK that is the correct statistic.
No immigrant has been invited to come to fill the jobs that the British will not do. That importation of labour stopped decades ago. THE UK DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH JOBS FOR ITS ORIGINAL POPULATION, and we certainly do not accept asylum seeks/illegal immigrants for that purpose
For about 5 yrs all immigrants are not allowed to work until they get govt permission To Remain, so they live on benefits and take council accommodation from British people who have been on the waiting list for 12 yrs and more. It is a declared programme that all immigrants shall be fast-tracked in terms of accommodation, so they take precedence. This surely is not right, regardless of your politics?! I know of two couples who ae still (in theory) on the council waiting list for a flat and in the meantime have had children who are in ther teens. They had to get on with life living in bad private accommodation. Yet newcomers are given sometimes very nice accommodation. This is in England, it may be different in France.
In our schools, the festival of Christmas has been renamed by the scared Useful Idiots because they say it may hurt the feelings of Muslim children. So Christmas is now called the Winter Festival. This is one small example of the erosion of our national habits. Another example: an English householder put some of her colleciton of ceramic animals in her front window. These happened to be 3 or 4 ceramic pigs. The Muslim family who lived opposite her called the Police and complained that the sight of the ceramic pigs was an insult to them.
The Police advised the householder to remove them. Ridiculous and probably out of that policeman’s jurisdiction to say that – but it shows how this society has started to pander to the sensitivities of Islam.
How ARROGANT and totalitarian is that? These are the kinds of things that are eroding England.
A few months ago there was a loud demonstration by Muslim youths through the streets, shouding all manner of inflammatory words and calling for the beheading of – it seems like – everyone. Another group opposed to such filthy & violent attitude came to protest at the Muslim protestors. This was a group of British youths. The Muslim boys were carrying metal bars and pieces of wood and were probably carrying knives as well. Who do you think got arrested? …… the British youths were were not carrying offensive weapons that once could see, and were not calling for the stoning/beheading of the infidel like the racist, intolerant Muslims boys were.
December 21st, 2009 at 6:49 pm
“Mr Frémaux-Soormally, you are so full of hate.”
CAN YOU PROVE IT FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE READERS?
I told you, you were ill informed, so, please, do your research!
When I arrived in the U.K. in 1990-1991, about 200,000 Britons left the UK disgusted with their homeland’s injustice. They had somewhere to go! They have plenty of stolen lands around the globe that they still occupy! You did not know about that one!
More than 60% of the cases before the International Court of Justice came from Britain!
Out of the several millions of Polish immigrants, only 1,3 or 1,5 million stayed behind, according to the Polish government figures. The others found Britain repulsive! I know about Polish culture and taste; my third wife was Polish!
It is useless talking to you because you WILL NEVER LEARN! You know it all! I was here for Mrs Ericka Kazi and not to read or listen to your racist attacks on Muslims and Islam.
As for my part, I have done my good deed (Christian-wise and Islamic-wise) and enough is enough! I am putting an end to this sterile exchange. Thank you anyway. May God guide you!
BAFS
21/12/2009
December 22nd, 2009 at 12:05 am
I agree that that justice is not available to the common man in England. The courts and barristers are corrupt. I am currently accompanying a friend of mine to court and see the twisting of words and events. In 1996 I too was treated unjustly in the small claims court by a judge. I know about Poles too because I am of East European extraction. The Poles who came to the UK came for one purpose – and that it to work. The exchange rate in 2004 until 2006 was very much to their advantage ….. something like 5 zlotys to the £Pound. When it began reducing and finally ended at half of that exchange rate, they went back home to their wives and children.
Those who stayed were either married couples who had managed to get council flats, or single men with good spoken English who banded together with friends and bought a property. IT WAS ALWAYS THE INTENTION FOR THE MAJORITY TO RETURN TO POLAND, and on each visit home they went straight to the exchange bureau offering the best exchange and changed the $ to Zl. I visited Poland with a Polish man and this is what he (and others) routinely did.
Britons migrate all the time. Not sure what you are trying to say here. You speak of stolen lands that they go to. Britons usually emigrate to NZ, Australia or Spain – nothing stolen there. If you are so hot about stolen land, then understand that the Brit, the French, the Italian does not want there lands stolen from under them by the deluge of an alien culture who does not want to integrate, it is never the intention and therefore a self-imposed apartheid develops which is not good for either group.
The only groups that routinely march thru London demonstrating are various Muslim groups. No one else – apart from Gays. And all of the marches by Muslims are violent in word and deed. How do you think the host country feels about aliens who have been taken in, given money and accommodation and yet they speak their vile words about the host country. Jordan and other Muslim countries did not want them, and yet they are hell-bent on demonising the country that gave them shelter.
We dont see demonstrations in England by Japanese, Australians, East Europeans, Africans, etc – O N L Y M US L I M S, usually Pakistani, Middle Eastern, Bangladeshi. This sociopathic narcissism that is always looking for attention and is always looking to feel aggrieved over something is what the British do not like. You want EVERYTHING YOUR OWN WAY because that attitude was inculcated into every Muslim child: Do not co-exist – take over. Do not accept others’ laws – impose our own.
British people in their Thirties jump at the chance to be relocated by their firms to another country that has a tighter policy on immigration so that they can establish themselves, get residents cards and live in a culture that is European essentially, cooperative and away from the cruel utterances of various Muslim people who want to behead, behead, behad. What kind of attitude is that?
If you hate the UK so much, as your emails convey, then save your emotions in railing against our society and start thinking of moving.
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:07 am
WHY BLAME ERICKA TAZI FOR POLICE INCOMPETENCE?
Ref: Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang of Aintree of Bounty House in Liverpool
After a few days researching about the case, on all sides, I have come to the following conclusion.
I spoke to Mrs Sharon Vogelenzang this day, Tuesday the 22nd of December 2009, at about 10.30AM, and told her that I was happy the case against her was dismissed, but that I studied her case and was writing a piece about it, but that I was more interested in the Christian and spiritual side of it, and not the political side. She said she cannot talk about the case any more as the Christian Institute (who financed their legal defence) is handling the matter and the case was still ongoing, but that it was only a matter of “free speech” and nothing more. This is a lie that she should have avoided telling me!
I told Sharon that I was myself the Manager of the Hôtel Windsor in Paris for thirteen years and worked with the Jewish Community, and what happened to Mrs Ericka Tazi was simply inadmissible.
When I asked her why was it that her husband and herself were allowing so much hatred and lies printed about that case, including on their own website, she had no answer. I pressed her to tell me why the Apartheid entity known as Israel, homosexual and black organisations were supporting this anti Muslim, anti-Arab and anti-Islamic vilification campaigns, she said she was sorry and had no time to talk to me. I wanted to know who else was behind, but she would not talk.
I also wanted to know if she and her husband were members of COMMON PURPOSE of belong to the FRIENDS OF ISRAEL movements, but Sharon visibly was very reluctant to talk “freely”. She was no more interested in “Free speech” all of a sudden when I mentioned the words “Israel” and “homosexuals”!
The whole thing does not smell very Christian at all! It was obvious that Sharon was not interested in the Christian or spiritual side of the matter, but only in its racist politics. So, I will not lose my time anymore speaking about the religious side of the case. I told her that this case has caused more hatred between the two communities, and she agreed. Was it the intention?
My email to Sharon and Benjamin was returned undelivered, and Sharon is visibly not interested in what I have been writing about them.
On the side of the “Crown” Prosecution Service, they have no comment to make as the case has been judged without appeal, so I understood. But, if they were so incompetent, they should be blamed and not Mrs Ericka Tazi. I would rather believe it was a carefully planned media stunt!
On the other side, the NHS hospital’s decision is a clear indication that they were in possession of some kind of damning evidence that both Sharon and Benjamin have been behaving very unprofessionally for which reason their contract with them was terminated. The testimony of their own two Christian patients should have sufficed! But, are they going to renew their contract with the Bounty House Hotel in Liverpool now that the judgement had been rendered in the favour of Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang?
My conclusion is that we are more likely dealing with wealthy fascist and racist organisations influenced or controlled by Zionists who by the way are also the main promoters of the homos sexual movements.
BAFS
Tuesday 22nd of December 2009
December 22nd, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Indeed, Mr Frémaux-Soormaly, and who is behind all the demos by Muslims in London ….. couldnt be Saudi Arabia, could it?
They finance building of the majority of the mosques in England. Yes, there are donations from the people but most of the money comes from Saudi. Similarly, the Muslim schools in London are financed by Saudi Arabia in order to ensure that their version of Islam is taught.
Who do you think had a hand in the bombing of London? The coordinators of the USEFUL IDIOTS are outside of the UK.
Who runs alll the English prostitutes in the North of England? Muslim men. They earn their living off the earnings of young call girls. But of course, they are kaffirs so it is not a sin for the Muslim men to prostitute them …. it doesnt count.
The Muslims told the Hindus and Sikhs “Either convert to Muslim or die.” Those that did not convert were run through with the sword. That was two centures ago, but that is the flavour of Islam’s inability to co-exist.
December 22nd, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Mr. Soormally, much of what has been said here is correct.NOT what you have said, but the ones in opposition to you. I am Muslim by birth but I have seen so much sadism and hypocrisy. I suggest you and the others on here check out http://www.faithfreedom.org
It will open your eyes to the totalitariansim, fascism – whatever you care to call it.
December 22nd, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Our New Year 2009 Message
We will all meet in death; if not through a resurrection, surely in the dust. So, why not meet in life and find time to tell our neighbours how much we love them and care for the welfare of the good ones among them.
Everyday should be a day full of warmth and greetings to each of us. Whether there is GOD or not, may peace and blessings be upon you all, and may our children grow up with mutual love and understanding.
When we celebrate this coming New Year 2009, let us not, never forget the SACRIFICE of all those who died victims of criminal wars so that we may live. Life is a gift from GOD. So, let us take care of it as our most precious possession.
HAPPY MUHARRAM 1431, and HAPPY GREGORIAN NEW YEAR 2009, and love to you all”
From B.A. Frémaux-Soormally & Ghyslaine ROC.
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Religion is not bad. People can be. Lets not tar EVERY muslim or EVERY christian or EVERY jew with the same brush. Yes there are SOME muslims, some christians and some jews who are bad people, but dont make their religion bad and dont tar every other person in that faith with the same brush.
Evil people do not represent their religion, be it christain, muslim or judaism, and lets not forget that the core message of all these similar religions is to worship the creator…………the ONE god. Other virtues of kindness, and being good to each other are at the core of each of these religions.
God did not make man hate and fight each other thats mans doing. The intolerance and hatred shown on these boards by people who claim to be christian is astonishing. A good person does not stand for oppression tyranny or bullying of another person, whatever their benign religious beliefs.
Dont lets get tarred with the same brush as those who commit evil………………..to all good muslims, christians and jews with love in their hearts……………..peace be upon you. To those with hate in their hearts………Allah, God, Our creator WILL judge YOU on the day of judgement.
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Mr Stephen – I do not think anyone was saying that faith is bad. Of course it is always the person who does bad. But you must understand one thing, and I know it is difficult for a nice person as yourself to really accept that there is an inate need within Islam to dominate and take over. It is prophet’s instruction to all muslims, not something of their own making. Democratic countries such as Britain who allow multi faith buildings are seen by muslims as weak. We muslims are charged with not only spreading the faith but also converting the heathen, willingly or unwillingly.
Someone has already spoken of our history in this regard and this is so. People who are not Muslim are seen as either incomplete or dirty. I do not like this belief because we are all God’s creation and different religions are man-made. I was born in Iraq and I know that children can be brainwashed, but thankfully my parents were not unthinking people.
Exactly Mr Stephen – “a good person does not stand for oppression, tyranny or bullying” so it would be good if you could see how things are without denial.
January 9th, 2010 at 10:58 pm
Dear you all
I am greatly concerned about my non Zionist Christian Brothers and Sisters after I have watched the following documentaries:
1. New Age Infiltration of the Truth Movement (Final Cut 2009) – Keith Thompson
2. Exposing the Satanic Empire – Keith Thompson
3. Yoga – Brainwashing – Gods of the New Age – Religion Exposed as a Fraud
The attack on Christianity has to be resisted by all means even if Christians spend so much time in demonising Islam and Muslims. We, Muslims, love the “People of the Book” (Israelites and Chtistians), but as long as they do not join with criminals to harm innocent people.
Love
Basheer
January 10th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Actually mr jafa i am a british muslim, converted several years ago from christianity and my husband is an Iraqi so i know a fair bit about this…………..and no where does it say in Islam that we are to convert people. If someone wishes to do so its their free will to, but to say such a thing about forcibly converting people? You are either horribly mistaken or adding fuel to the fire by spreading mistruth……………………………….you sound like a christian to me!!!
January 10th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Sura 109 Al- Kafirun THE DISBELIEVERS
In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
1. Say (O Muhammad Salla Llahu alayhi wa sallam – May Allahs peace and blessings be upon him to these Mushrikûn and Kâfirûn): “O Al-Kâfirûn (disbelievers in Allâh, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar, etc.)!
2. “I worship not that which you worship,
3. “Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4. “And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
5. “Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. “To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islâmic Monotheism).”
READ THE LAST SURA CAREFULLY……………………….TO YOU YOUR RELIGION AND TO ME MY RELIGION.
January 10th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
“READ THE LAST SURA CAREFULLY……………………….TO YOU YOUR RELIGION AND TO ME MY RELIGION.”
stephen wrote:
January 10th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
I think a good question to ask anybody who writes about Islam is whether he or she has read the Holy Qur’an and which translation. It is useless to respond to propaganda when people are ignorant of the subject matter itself. Most people, politicians, journalists and academics who demonise Islam have not read and have no wish to ever read the Holy Qur’an or learn Arabic. They are filled with hatred for Islam, Muslims, Arabs, and even for the Arabic language.
Our Christian Brother Texe Marrs writes much truth about the danger of Zionism and the Jewish criminal Mafia, but when it comes to Islam he gets everything wrong. Our Brother Kent Hovind had the same blindness.
You are right. Muslims never tried in the past or try now to convert anybody to Islam, but Christians do. Muslims (Tatars) ruled Russia, Spain (Moors), Hindustan (Mughals), Lebanon and Egypt (Ottomans) and many other countries, but they never imposed Islam anywhere.
By Law, Muslims have only one obligation: TO INVITE (CALL) the whole of Humankind to Islam. Only God Almighty can enlighten the heart. Hoever, it is well known that most of us love (chose) to remain deaf, dumb and blind to all invitation. There is no compulsion in Islam.
BAFS
10/1/2010
January 11th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
“FREEDOM OF SPEECH” NOT FOR MUSLIMS!!!!!!!
FOUND GUILTY FOR RESPONDING TO PROVOCATION!
SKY NEWS “Muslims Guilty Over Army ‘Baby Killer’ Jibes
6:29pm UK, Monday January 11, 2010
Mark Langford, Sky News Online
Five Muslim men accused of branding British soldiers rapists, murderers and baby killers during a homecoming parade have been found guilty of a public order offence.
The Royal Anglian Regiment parades through Luton
The men protested as the Royal Anglian Regiment paraded through Luton
Munim Abdul, 28, Jalal Ahmed, 21, Yousaf Bashir, 29, Shajjadar Choudhury, 31, and Ziaur Rahman, 32, all from Luton, were convicted at Luton Magistrates’ Court.
They were given two year conditional discharges and order to pay contributions towards costs of £500 each for using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress.
Jubair Ahmed, 19, and Ibrahim Anderson, 32, also from Luton, were acquitted of the same charge.
Angry scenes broke out during the parade in Luton for the 2nd Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment, known as The Poachers, on March 10 last year.
A large crowd lined the streets of the Bedfordshire town to celebrate the return of the local regiment, who had served in Iraq and Afghanistan.
But a group of protesters also attended carrying placards and shouting slogans about the soldiers, prosecutor Avirup Chaudhuri said.
Among these were the jeers: “British Army: murderers”; “British soldiers burn in hell”; “Baby killers”; and “British soldiers you will pay”.
Lawyers for the men said their clients discussed plans to protest with police beforehand, had agreed to a time and a place to do so with them, had complied with police throughout and officers had not objected at the time to their slogans.
District Judge Carolyn Mellanby said the trial was a test case and described it as “very unusual”.
She rejected the lawyers’ argument that their clients were merely exercising their right to freedom of speech as enshrined in the Human Rights Act.
She said: “The defendants’ conduct went beyond reasonable legitimate protest.
“Their behaviour was an open expression of opinion on a matter of public interest which was advanced in words that amounted to being disproportionate and unreasonable.”
The defendants responded defiantly to the verdict outside court.
Under a banner held up by a supporter saying “Islam will dominate the world. Freedom can go to hell”, Choudhury said the trial showed the failure of freedom of speech and democracy.
“We already knew the verdict before the trial started,” he said. “The verdict was inevitable.”
He added: “Muslims are being witch-hunted for exposing the atrocities being committed in our land which they are occupying.”"
This should teach Muslims how good it is to be British, even when they lick the boots of the government and its minions. If they still do not get the message, who is to blame?
BAFS
January 11th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
Muslim protesters who screamed abuse at British soldiers in homecoming parade get away with slap on the wrist
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 6:01 PM on 11th January 2010
Five Muslim men who screamed insults at soldiers during an Iraq homecoming parade today escaped with a slap on the wrist.
The five men had already been found guilty of calling the returning soldiers ‘murderers’, ‘terrorists’ and ‘rapists’ as they marched through Luton in March last year.
But today the men, who all come from Luton, were freed with a two-year conditional discharge and ordered to pay contributions towards costs of just £500 each.
The men’s lawyer has complained that the media coverage of the protest led to them being prosecuted, even though their placards had been approved by local police.
Munim Abdul, 28, Jalal Ahmed, 21, Yousaf Bashir, 29, Shajjadar Choudhury, 31, and Ziaur Rahman, 32, were convicted at Luton Magistrates’ Court today of using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress.
Jubair Ahmed, 19, and Ibrahim Anderson, 32, also from Luton, were acquitted of the same charge.
A large crowd lined the streets of the Bedfordshire town to celebrate the return of the local regiment, who had served in Iraq and Afghanistan.
But a group of protesters also attended carrying placards and shouting slogans about the soldiers, prosecutor Avirup Chaudhuri said.
Among these were the jeers: ‘British Army: murderers’; ‘British soldiers burn in hell’; ‘Baby killers’; and ‘British soldiers you will pay’.
Protesters also denounced the troops as terrorists.
A supporter of the seven Muslim protesters arrives at Luton Magistrates Court this morning holding a placard saying ‘Islam will dominate the world – Freedom can go to hell’
‘Islam will dominate the world – Freedom can go to hell’: A supporter of the seven Muslim protesters arrives at Luton Magistrates’ Court today
Lawyers defending the men said their clients discussed their plans to protest with police beforehand, had agreed to a time and a place to do so with them, had complied with police throughout and officers had not objected at the time to their slogans.
This implied consent by the police and to prosecute them retrospectively was not right, the lawyers said.
But District Judge Carolyn Mellanby rejected their argument.
More…
* ‘Vile’ death threats for creator of Facebook group opposing Muslim march through Wootton Bassett
* Islamic group abandons anti-war march through Wootton Bassett as it faces Home Secretary ban
Giving her judgment, she said: ‘I find that a criminal prosecution and conviction of five of the seven defendants is a proportionate response to the legitimate aim of protection of society and maintenance of public order, not only for the future but to ensure there is sufficient public confidence and support in the peace-keeping responsibilities of the police and the courts.’
The incident provoked a public outcry, she added.
Lawyers defending the men said their clients discussed their plans to protest with police beforehand, had agreed to a time and a place to do so with them, had complied with police throughout and officers had not objected at the time to their slogans.
This implied consent by the police and to prosecute them retrospectively was not right, the lawyers have argued.
The men could have sworn or made gestures during the protest but did not, Ms Dashani told the court on the sixth day of the trial.
The fact that Muslims do not do these things could indicate that these men were not being threatening or abusive, she said.
‘This would fall foul of the religion that they are protesting under the banner of,’ she said.
The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan – in which the regiment has served – are a legitimate subject for public debate, the lawyers have said.
Their clients were expressing their views on this subject, as they were entitled to do under the Human Rights Act, which includes the right to freedom of expression, they said.
If the war in Iraq is found to be illegal, then some might feel that the soldiers who fought in it are indeed murderers, Ms Dashani said.
Kyri Argyropoulos, defending Choudhury, said the prosecution was seeking to ‘criminalise, perhaps even demonise’ men who complied with police throughout their protest.
He suggested that the men may have been prosecuted due to the widespread media coverage of the protest.
He said: ‘(The prosecution) … seems to have catalogued almost every press article relating to the incident, somewhat unusually.
‘Could it be in hindsight that somebody somewhere regretted the fact that Choudhury and his fellow protesters had been allowed to protest at all, given how extensively it was reported, then prosecuted on what was … the easiest to prove?
‘Someone somewhere perhaps needing to save face?’
The words ‘easiest to prove’ appear in police notes in unused material gathered during the investigation, he has told the court.
He added: ‘If I can use the mixed metaphor of closing the gate after the horse has bolted and then using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, I wouldn’t be doing justice to how misguided and unfair this prosecution was.’
The Muslim protesters brandished banners calling British soldiers ‘butchers’ during the parade
TRY AND UNDERSTAND SOMETHING! I CANNOT!
BAFS
January 12th, 2010 at 12:39 am
THE JUICY TRUTH OF BIBLICAL WINE
By David Gross
INTRODUCTION (Page 2)
“To drink, or not to drink: that is the question.” As much as the Bible refers to alcohol and the dangers of drunkenness, why do people struggle with this question? Before making it through the first five books of the Old Testament, the reader is confronted with the word “wine” in both positive and negative references. Continuing through the rest of Scripture only validates the confusion over the issue of whether alcoholic beverages may be consumed by God’s people.
“Wine” is found from Genesis 9:21 with Noah’s drunkenness to the end judgments on Babylon in Revelation 18:3. The focus of the issue on wine in the Bible revolves around whether every case refers to alcoholic wine or whether wine could also mean a non-alcoholic drink. Surprisingly, the English word “wine,” found in the King James Bible and other English translations, is used to translate at least ten different Hebrew words and at least two Greek words.
A study of these different words for wine in the original languages will lay the groundwork for this study on whether wine in the Bible was solely alcoholic or not. This issue also requires background and cultural study to arrive at a valid conclusion.
As the morality of this world continues to wane, believers need to know what the Bible teaches about wine and fermented drinks. Studying the different Hebrew and Greek words for wine, the process and use of wine in Bible times, and the Biblical view of wine will guide the believer to a clearer understanding of this muddy issue.
CONCLUSION (Page 12)
After examining the Biblical words for wine, the process and use of wine in Bible times, and the Biblical view of wine, one can designate two different types of wine in Scripture. The Hebrew and Greek words, though not exclusive in every case, reveals a distinction between fresh grape juice and fermented wine. The historical accounts in secular writings only support the division of two types of wines. In light of the linguistic and historical information, the Bible’s use of “wine” becomes clear when context is taken into account.
The dangers of alcoholic wine and blessings of grape juice declare the need for believers to separate from fermented drinks. The countless homes and lives destroyed by alcohol have not even been addressed in this paper. The number of alcohol related automobile accidents also have not been given to support abstinence from alcohol. The testimony of Scripture alone should be enough to bring believers to a decision to refrain from alcoholic beverages.
General Robert E. Lee agreed with the Bible when he said, “My experience through life has convinced me that abstinence from spirituous liquors is the best safeguard to morals and health.”24 The issue of wine is not about standards but sanctification and refraining from sin.
24 Alban Douglas, One Hundred Bible Lessons: God’s Answers to Man’s Questions (Macedonia, Ohio: Bble Believers Bookstore, 1966), 254. D Gross Page 12
January 12th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
There is a minority group of so called muslims called wahabis (sunni extremists) who hate everyone……….mostly the shia who they kill on a daily basis in Iraq. The absolute majority of people in Iraq thank Allah that Saddam was gotten rid of………………..you would not believe the horror stories about that man………….you think Hitler was bad, then please ask anyone who lived and grew up in Iraq during Saddams reign of terror just what life was like for them. If he didnt torture or murder them then he starved them to death. A teachers salary was the equilivent of one pound per month. The price of food was ridiculous……….one banana could cost upto 20 pounds as could a can of coke. Rice, eggs, tomatoes and other basic footstuffs was scarce. If you spoke out against Saddam he would cut your tongue out……….if you were lucky. Atrocities were rife and conditions awful, so yes, the Iraqi people ARE glad that the UK helped get rid of Saddam, even though the Americans helped put him there in the first place. (read about it…………its fascinating stuff)
Those protesters are from a minority whose sole purpose is to make people hate Islam…..they are scary people who hate everyone who do not think the way they do. These are the people who commit terrorist atacks……………….usually agaisnt Muslims particualry the shia who they hate.
So please people……..do your research, talk to genuine Muslims………………….wahabis who preach hate and death are NOT muslim though they claim to be………………Islam is a religion of peace……………..and if anyone says otherwise then they are only wearing the mask of Islam.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:37 pm
stephen said:
January 12th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
“…the Iraqi people ARE glad that the UK helped get rid of Saddam…”
“…Islam is a religion of peace…”
So, you condone the genocide of the Iraqi people and the destruction of the country and the civilisation that gave the West its own civilisation???????
What then do you make of the LAW???????
Islam is not a religion of peace!!!!!! BUT, A RELIGION OF SINCERE SUBMISSION, SURRENDER AND OBEDIENCE TO GOD IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE PEACE BETWEEN HUMANS AND THEIR CREATOR!
Sorry to disappoint you!
BAFS
January 14th, 2010 at 10:16 am
BAFS – I thought you said you were not going to bother with this site anymore, but here you are again. Go away.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
Joanna Richards said:
January 14th, 2010 at 10:16 am
“BAFS – I thought you said you were not going to bother with this site anymore, but here you are again. Go away.”
It is not given to everybody to understand human language, intelligence and wisdom. When you want to complain about what I write, please, QUOTE ME? Your lies about Islam and Muslims is right here for everyone to see and they are in blatant violation of the Commandment of God!
If you have not yet got it, I am a Muslim, a Christian (of Christ) and an Israelite (of the Abrahamic faith), and to some degrees a monotheist “Hindu” Vedantist.
As for this site, I have only gratitude as those responsible have allowed me freedom of speech, and I AM NOT OF THE UNGRATEFUL TYPE! That is why, unlike Athists, I always thank the Creator for all His Bounties.
I do not know if you are really a Christian, but if you really are, then you WILL understand. Further, I do not see why YOU should ask me to “go away” when I am not your guest! The day my host will require me to leave for whatever reason, I will leave with thanks for his or her hospitality. I am not here for ever, you know!
But, where did you learn your manners?
May God guide you.
BAFS