Comments on: Christian hotel owners Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest

By: Jim

Jim — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:50:53 +0000

The most interesting thing to me is the content of the many of the comments to this article. It shows how scarily easy it is to rouse a rabble on the flimsiest of heresay evidence. This intemperate behaviour is encouraged by partial media, who tailor their articles to massage the prejudices of their readers – and the process is cyclical, becoming moe entrenched each time it goes round.
Break the cycle guys! Remove the oxygen you provide to the extemists!

By: Sense

Sense — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:03:31 +0000

First of all, it is migrants not immigrants ( I have the urge to call Mario a FOOL). And also, are you all right in the head? Since when did Jesus say we can insult other religions in the name of free speech?!
Are you going to tell me that you’d let somebody bully your child because they have the right to an opinion and the right to express it? I think not, so why be so close minded due your religion and condemn other religions. You are not God, you will never know which is the true religion, all you have to do is believe christianity is. Most of you commenting are probably between the ages of 20 – 50, I still can’t believe I have more sense than you.
“Among the things Mr Vogelenzang, 53, is alleged to have said is that Mohammad was a warlord. His wife, 54, is said to have stated that Muslim dress is a form of bondage for women. ” – I bet these people, like Mario, were repeating what they were told. There are many Muslim women who chose to wear a veil, they are like NUNS! – Christianity requires Nuns to wear veils and cover up, so why the double standard?!
FYI – I’m a Christian (with common sense)

By: Inspector

Inspector — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 23:52:45 +0000

Mario: Putting aside your “certain”-ty without evidence. Do you know whether YOU are compatible with western civilisation? All the social changes that have been constantly altering the landscape around us, do you know where it is all leading before you conveniently narrow your focus down to Islam? You mean to tell me that everything is hunky dory and then Islam came to wreck the place? WW1 + WW2 ? Islam had nothing to with it? Unless of course you have a new theory up your sleeves. And “litigation jihad” ? are you suggesting that we should forbid and deny Muslims in the West access to courts because it’s part of a so called plan? Get a life dude!

By: just me

just me — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:25:00 +0000

Mario
i would say read the history i made a research by my self i many of history books all of it confirm that his wife was 18 not 9. the whole problem is you just listen and repeat what u hear, ask you self why mohammed spent his youth with an older women his first wife older than him in 15 year his second wife older than him in tens if he was ladys man he should enjoy his youth with younger women.
another thing who told you that mohammed attack nations again you just repeat what you hear without evidance, for you information mohammed first war was after 15 year o his message, and it was defensive war.
for god love she old disabled woman.

read more before you put comments coz you embarrassing yourself

By: Mario

Mario — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:00:20 +0000

Now if I say that Muhammed was a paedophile (he had sex repeatedly with a nine year-old child who he said was his wife, one of many), that he had sex with his daughter-in-law, that he ambushed and killed men, raped their wives and children, would I be taken to court ?

Like most Europeans I am certain that Islam is incompatible with western civilisation.

BY the way we are aware of litigation jihad by Muslim immigrants in the West

By: Makeda

Makeda — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:25:38 +0000

I live in the US and read this story on Yahoo. If the AP version of this story is true, that the Christian couple became volitile first and lashed out at the woman unprovoked, than what they did was WRONG and UNChristian like. Whatever happened to love hm? It is with LOVE that you win converts, not ridicule. I do not support this couple

By: Chrissie

Chrissie — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:59:38 +0000

Thank goodness sense has prevailed. It was a nonsense that they were arrested in the first place

By: stephen

stephen — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:57:07 +0000

Putting religious differences aside for a moment i think this says a lot really…………………Benjamin and Sharon Vogelenzang were very rude and abusive to an elderly disabled lady guest who had paid them over two and half grand for a months stay.
And she was on her own.
Charming.
They should be utterly disgusted with themselves.
Next time they should keep their opinions to themselves. Theyre both a disgrace to the christian faith.

They should apologise to that lady and refund her.

By: memo

memo — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:45:56 +0000

one question to you all
if jesus saw those couple behavie like that abuse others, put thier shamful behavior under jesus’s name will he be happy or pleased??

shame on that couple to do such thing.

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:35:22 +0000

Case dismissed. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8404212.stm

It seems to me that a discussion got a bit heated and afterwards the muslim woman went to the police.

By: sarah

sarah — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:32:12 +0000

I recomend reading A DEADLY MISUNDERSTANDING by MARK SILJANDER.
Jews, christians and muslims all believe in the same one god……………..its about time we stopped being so distrustful and abusive to each other……………jesus, mohammed, abraham should all be respected as moral people…………..just think how strong we would all be if we were united.
Benjamin and Sharon Vogelenzang should not have acted in the way they did……………..they call themselves christians but were agressive and abusive to an elderly disabled woman…………………..something that NONE of our prophets would condone.
Final point………………..if a woman walks down the street with her cleavage on display no one says a word……………….but when a woman chooses to cover herself respectfully shes vilified.
Theres something VERY wrong here.

By: Marwan Zeineddine

Marwan Zeineddine — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:34:16 +0000

Hi,

Where is the Christian charity and hospitality when a Muslim woman undergoing medical treatment is told by the managers of the small hotel she was staying in, that her most beloved Prophet was a warlord and that she is a slave and in bondage for wearing a Hijab.

It isn’t a question of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech does not equate to verbal abuse and displaying religious intolerance. The Quran invites Muslims to debate with other faiths but ALWAYS in the best of manners and respect as I’m sure does the Bible.

Shame on the hotel owners for bullying a lady undergoing treatment simply because of their hostility towards Islam, and shame for all the other fanatics for siding with them simply because it reflects their own hatred towards Islam.

Jesus Christ would certainly have sided with the Muslim woman, as he would always side with the oppressed and bullied not the arrogant and hateful.

By: Anna

Anna — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:46:25 +0000

Interestingly one of the witnesses for the prosecution is another guest who is also a committed christian – and she has described it as “a very upsetting and volatile exchange”. Another guest reports hearing the defendents shouting “Nazi” at the 60 year old disabled muslim woman.

This does not sound like defensible christian behaviour towards a guest.

By: Islam

Islam — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 18:26:10 +0000

i am a muslim and believe in jesus, i believe he is one of the GREATEST prophets to every walk the earth. He will return before the day of judgement and the whole world will be in peace. Jesus is mentioned in the quran 25 TIMES, where as muhammad is mentioned only 5 TIMES. The whole story of jesus, his miraculous birth, the name of his mother, the story of the cross, the miracles he performed..EVERYTHING is mentioned. I am telling you this just to let you know how HIGHLY we think of jesus christ. His mother Mary is the GREATEST role model for women (as mentioned in the quran), this is the reason nuns dress the way Mary did.. and this also is the reason why muslim women wear the hijab and dress modestly. I hope Christians do not judge Islam on this case. Peace be with you all.

By: Mister Beaver

Mister Beaver — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 13:39:53 +0000

Unfortunatly, this article is very one sided.
If events happened as were laid out in this article, then I would agree with the comments posted. However, it has since came to light that this was not a reasonable debate about religion, but rather that the Christian couple, upon seeing the woman wearing a hijab, starting shouting at her, calling her “a terrorist” and “a murderer”.
Regardless of your faith, that is unnacceptable, intolerant behaviour. It would be the same as calling any catholic you see a paedophile.
These two are not Christians, they are intolerant bigots who shame the good name of Christianity.

By: MayMae

MayMae — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:37:21 +0000

This Moslem woman who stayed at the hotel was on private property that was owned by this Christian couple. They had every right to defend their Christian faith. If this had happened in America they would not have been arrested and would not be standing trial. I am proud and thankful to say that I am a personal believer in Jesus Christ and will defend my faith to any Moslem that debunks it. We have more religious rights over here in American than people in the UK. This is just another ploy to me to try and persecute Christians. But don’t worry my sisters and brothers in Christ. Jesus is still in control and will soon return to take his believers out via the glorious rapture of the saints. Then every hater of Christians on this earth will soon see that we were right all along. But then it will be too late to turn to the holy Son of God because Satan will have his 7 years of hell on earth to persecute every man, woman, and child of age that rejected Christ because his hour (the devils) has now come and nothing but hell itself will be the destiny of the people on this earth. Read the book of Revelation. Turn to Christ before it is too late.

By: Linda Jones

Linda Jones — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:08:21 +0000

For to long we (and I do believe myself to be a Christian) have been charitable and hospitable. I for one have always followed Jesus’ New Commandment. I am tolerant and open to discussion even though I will not change my opinions or beliefs. Now, if I am not mistaken (and it is possible, I am only human!) Christians are also called upon to pray regularly and at one point when I was exploring my vocation I prayed five times a day. I believe it is time to be more open about our Christian beliefs and to take advantage of the religious freedoms we are given. I spend much of my time in workplaces where a large part of the workforce is Muslim where I will now be taking my prayer book and making full use of the “multifaith” prayer areas to meet my own spiritual needs and those of my God. I would urge all Christians to do the same, even if this is something you have not done before, use the facilities that have been set aside, for your own Christian prayer do not be afraid to demonstrate your faith. Memorise your prayers so you can recite them aloud if you so desire be proud of what you believe and encourage everyone you know to do the same. There are many websites with daily prayers so you don’t need to do a huge amount of research even if, like me, it is a long time since you prayed regularly. Best wishes to everyone.

By: philip bailey

philip bailey — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 08:30:30 +0000

I agree with all the above, it is disgusting a christian cannot speak out for the truth of what they believe, christians are open to any debate and whatever the out come verbally it would never go to a threat to prosecute. How come the majority of muslims get angry at every critisism about islam, is it because they might realy believe there is truth in christianity and they are scared, Any way we are still to pray for them, and we will pray for Ben and Sharon, our God is a just God, i believe he is in this and they will get off.

By: Georgette

Georgette — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:41:31 +0000

Hello Ben and Sharon, I read your story and although my story is slightly different to yours, I feel so much empathy for you both because of my recent expereince of the use of powers under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986. My experience has left me feeling very unhappy, depressed, sucidial.

October 17 2009 I was arrested at my home address very early in the morning, taken to the police station and cautioned under section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 and the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 for racially aggravated harrrassment – words in a public place.

I am a black woman. A black gentleman discriminated against me ny making a number of comments to me because of my ethnic origin during the course of his duty. I responded back to him which I did not consider to be unresonable or racial under the circumstances. The gentleman became angry when he realised I was going to report him to the company he worked for. In order to safe guard himself he reported me to the police claiming I said things which were totally erroneous to the facts.

I signed the caution under what I consider extreme duress. I was told the only alternative available to me was to accept a caution and get the process over with more quickly or plead not guilty spend a considerable longer period of time in the police cell (possible overnight) while the CPA decided whether I would be bailed or not and then go to court where I would be found guilty and receive a conviction. I suffer from unbelievable fear of enclosed spaces therefore I tried to conform to everything I thought would allow me to get out of the cell as quickly as possible this included accepting a caution even though this was extremely painful and against my princple and beliefs.

I was not familiar with the specific wording in the act prior to being arrested therefore was not abe to make referene that to fact that section 3 (c) of the act says that:

‘It is a defence for the accused to prove his conduct was reasonable’. I believe that like in your case, I did not behave unreasonable.

In some cases the meaning is being mis-intrepetated and the powers under the Act are being mis-used by the police in some cases. It appears that once cautioned or charged there are few or no legal recouse for the accused.

By: jon gower davies

jon gower davies — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 10:28:21 +0000

This is a most disgraceful (though predictable) use of this ludicrous legislation.
Do you know, and if so could you tell me and your other correspondents, when and where this ‘trial’ is to take place, so I/we can come and support our fellow-citizen-Christians
JGD (Dr)

By: Mikhael

Mikhael — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:04:32 +0000

I am not a religious person but I think this situation stinks, your Hotel is promoted as a Christian Hotel and those of other religions have no business to go there and complain because you are Christians. If they dislike or disappove of your views, don’t go there, go elsewhere, stay at a Mosque perhaps, but how dare these people come and complain that they are offended in a country that is headed by a christian church and how dare they seek to claim that they are morally or religiously superior, they most certainly have proved with this debacle that they are not. I hope that the Judge sees good sense and throws out this case. You have the support, not only of Christians, but all decent thinking and law abiding people of the world.

By: Deborah

Deborah — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:15:43 +0000

What is going on….so what are we going to do about it????? anything???? are there any petitions , rallies etc . I have written to my MP…doubt it will do any good but here’s hoping.

By: Jackie Ray

Jackie Ray — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:10:57 +0000

I am appalled at this latest conviction by the police of a decent couple who were merely in a private discussion with a Muslim woman who, I see, has remained nameless for some obscure reason. Are we not allowed to voice such opinions?? I am married to an Indian and have many Indian friends of all nationalities – we quite often have lively debates about various religions – why is it always the Muslims who take offence?? What gives them the right to think that they are above opinions? Unfortunately the minority of Muslims spoil it for the vast majority who are tarred with the same brush, i.e. totally intolerant of any other religion except Islam. I despair for the future of this country.

By: 4Symbols

4Symbols — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:39:46 +0000

What next the mass arrests of church congregations?

By: Moss

Moss — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:08:28 +0000

This is ‘Lawfare’ or ‘Litigation Jihad’, a form of legal harassment where the objective is to financially ruin critics of Islam. This tactic is very successful and is being used increasingly by Muslims in the West, see links under LITIGATION JIHAD at The Religion of Peace™ Subject Index

By: ciccio

ciccio — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:39:15 +0000

Knowing what a slimy lot the labour thugs in power are, I would imagine they would have removed the D.G. and Def. Fid. from the face of the coinage. If i by chance it is still on, complain to the Queen. They were doing her job for her.

By: Colin Hodgson

Colin Hodgson — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:12:54 +0000

This is final proof that free speech is a thing of the past in Britain and we now live an age of terror, suspicion and fear of the state’s “thought police” as created by the evil Blair / Brown / Harman conspiritors.

How many more decent, hard working people will be criminalised for having an opinion?

There is another wider aspect to this story. The Christian religion places an obligation on followers to promote belief in Christ and spread the message. We seem to be in a mess in which the right to follow one’s religion contradicts the law (Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 and Section 31 (1) (c) and (5) of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998.) which disallows free speech. Of course moslems will be free to promote their religion.

Even though I expect this one to get thrown out of court, it is still evidence of the end of freedom of speech in Britain as the NuLabour stasi are determined to impose total control of opinion.